Ep 82: An Unconventional Education

Tony Wagner, educator and author of several books, most recently
his memoir Learning by Heart, joins us this week for a closer
look at what really makes a difference in the education of teens.
What makes the greatest positive impact on students? How an
unconventional education can be advantageous?


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Full show notes


What do you want your child to learn in school?


Do you want your teen to learn math, science, grammar, and maybe
another language? Sure! Why not? But, do these subjects cover all
of human potential? What if your teen doesn’t care about the
stuff we learn in traditional classrooms?


Encouraging a teenager to study can be the hardest job in the
world when school isn’t teaching them anything useful. (Did that
get a raised eyebrow from you?)


“But school is important!” you say. You want your kid to practice
self-discipline, curiosity, and thoughtful conversations in
school, but that doesn’t always happen. The sad reality is that
the American school system prioritizes “subjects,” not life
skills.


When students don’t view their education as life skills, they can
become unengaged, uninterested, and dispassionate about learning.


Encouraging a teenager to study math is fruitless when that
teenager thinks he’ll never use math skills outside of school.
You might have a dozen conversations about the value of
understanding mathematics, but they are likely a waste of energy
for you and your teen if your teen doesn’t care.


If our education system isn’t prioritizing the specific life
skills teens need to pursue their passions, what can parents and
teachers do to compensate? Thankfully, this conversation has been
going on for awhile, and there are a lot of strategies for
encouraging a teenager to study that have been battle tested. In
this episode, I have the honor and privilege of speaking to the
brilliant and prolific author of seven books, including three
best sellers: Tony Wagner.


Tony has been wrestling with America’s education system for over
50 years, starting when he was in high school. He’s spent 20
years in different faculties at Harvard University and currently
is an internationally sought after speaker and teacher. I was so
excited to get the opportunity to talk about his life story as
depicted in his most recent book and memoir, Learning by Heart:
An Unconventional Education.


Tony’s Story


Tony’s bio sounds impressive, right? Maybe not what you would
expect from a high school dropout and two-time college dropout.
Like many teenagers zoning out in school today, Tony is an
incredibly smart person, but was bored to death in the classroom.


If Tony wanted to get something done, it wouldn’t happen in the
classroom for credit. Tony liked to read, but he never read any
book on the class reading list because he thought teachers ruined
the stories for him! He also liked to write, but his high school
English teacher was verbally abusive. To get better at writing,
Tony sought out another teacher at the school to tutor him
instead. He met with this teacher weekly in their free time.


What this teacher did has since defined Tony’s idea of a Great
Teacher.


He taught Tony as an INDIVIDUAL.


Every week, this teacher would identify a specific strength in
Tony’s writing, and then give some other suggestions to
supplement that strength.


When his school-assigned English teacher later cursed him out and
called him a “F***-up” in front of his friends, Tony dropped out
of high school.


Since the 1960s, our school system has changed for the better in
some ways, but not all. Today there could be serious reprimands
for a teacher cursing a student out. But there still aren’t
measures to ensure that all kids get the experience Tony had from
the other English teacher. Teachers might be held more
accountable now, but there hasn’t been a notable uptick in Great
Teacher experiences.


Seeing Students as Individuals


Encouraging a teenager to study means encouraging that teenager
to study. The interests one teenager wants to study can, and
should, be different from what the next teenager wants to study!


Tony’s goal isn’t to go after teachers here. He just wants to
point out that you can’t individualize students with the current
“batch processing” structure of education. Encouraging a teenager
to study the same stuff all the other students are studying
neglects the fact that teenagers are individuals. They might have
completely different passions that school just doesn’t focus on.


School only focuses on a narrow band of skills regarding human
capabilities. All other skills can be dismissed as superfluous.
Unfortunately, this only serves the kids who have an interest or
competency in those specific skills! He says he sees teachers so
constrained by a demand to teach “subjects” that they forget that
they’re teaching young people.


INDIVIDUALS.


When it comes to encouraging a teenager to study, Tony desires to
see teachers distill what is critically important about their
subject. Once those fundamentals are taught, teachers can then
make time for students to apply those foundational skills to
their specific passions. A math teacher probably knows that some
algebraic functions can apply to all life skills. What if after
teaching those skills, that teacher then helped students apply
those to their individual interests? Pointing out the relevancy
of these skills can increase a students passion to learn, and
this is something parents can do for students as well.


It took Tony 30 years to realize that a knowledge of grammar did
not equate to a strength in writing. Still, grammar skills are
necessary to become a good writer. Likewise, a student interested
in car engines shouldn’t have to wait until college to apply
science class to racecars. In the current system, that student
might not even make it to college, because they can’t make the
connection between school and their passion.


Stay Curious!


What’s been true at least for Tony, is that you won’t find a
reason to learn until you find a reason to care. Therefore, his
advice for adults to give to young people is: Stay CURIOUS!


Without curiosity, good luck encouraging a teenager to study.
According to Tony, curiosity is what keeps people inspired. Tony
believes every student should have a notebook to write down ALL
their questions and concerns, related to class or not.


Encouraging a teenager to study these questions in their
notebooks promotes curiosity. If every child had a journal where
they could write down their questions to pursue later, curiosity
could become a habit. This necessitates adults creating time and
space for young people to pursue those questions. If students
don’t have the space to pursue their questions, then there’s no
motivation for them to be curious. But by encouraging a teenager
to study their interests, curiosity, that sweet desire to learn
more, could become normal in almost every student.


This strategy of journaling can be super effective for
encouraging at home, too, not just at school. Parents can also
give their teens the opportunity to do the...