Ep 155: Growing Apart in Middle School

Judith Warner, author of And Then They Stopped Talking to Me,
speaks with us about why the middle school years are such trying
times for parents and teens. Judith shares her thoughts on how to
make things better for everyone.


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Full show notes


We all remember middle school….probably not too fondly! Between
the relentless social drama to the embarrassing body changes,
middle school is pretty much the worst. Not only are kids today
dealing with the things we dealt with, they’re also juggling the
pressures of social media, an intense political climate and a
terrifying pandemic as the cherry on top! Growing up through all
this is no easy task, and neither is parenting our kids through
it.


It’s hard enough watching teens struggle with these difficult
years, but when they won’t talk to us, it can feel impossible to
be a good parent. Unfortunately, it's not uncommon for pubescent
kids to suddenly shut parents out with no explanation. With
everything going on in their lives, a lot of kids feel
overwhelmed and afraid to open up, or they think it’s their job
to go at it alone. How can we get through to preteens and remind
them that we’re here to help them get through the perils of
middle school life?


To find out, we’re talking with Judith Warner, author of And Then
They Stopped Talking to Me: Making Sense of Middle School. Judith
is the bestselling author of multiple parenting books as well as
a senior fellow at the Center for American progress–and those are
just a few of her many accolades! In her work and personal life,
Judith recognized that parents of middle schoolers seemed to
really be struggling, but not sharing their woes with one another
out of embarrassment or fear. That’s why she’s decided to write
this book: to help parents wrap their heads around this wild
time, and realize they’re not alone.


In the episode, Judith and I are covering why middle school is
one of the most painful periods–but also one of the most
important. We’re discussing why this age is so hard on parents,
and what we can do about it. Plus, we’re addressing how you can
get a middle schooler to finally open up, even if they’ve been
shutting you out!


Why Middle School Matters


With all the hormones and heartbreak, middle school can be a time
we’d all frankly like to forget. So why is it that we seem to
remember the pain of puberty so well? Judith explains that the
experiences kids have during these years are incredibly formative
and often shape adult life! In our interview, we get into some
fascinating research about how those cringey middle school
moments can actually inform our way of seeing the world.


For growing kids, the early adolescent years contain the most
dramatic brain changes since their first three years of life,
says Judith. New connections are made and old connections are
shut down by a process called pruning. With all the changes going
on, kids’ brains are more vulnerable than ever to acquiring new
capabilities, which is awesome...but they’re also more
susceptible to social conflict, mental health issues, substance
abuse, and more. In the episode, Judith and I get into how
marijuana is a particularly important force to look out for
during these pre-teen years.


All these puberty problems aren’t just a sign of the times. As
Judith explains in our interview, kids have been struggling with
middle school since middle schools were created in the early 20th
century! For the first time, kids are really getting out of their
social bubbles and entering a larger pool of classmates. Often,
it’s a brutal introduction to critical decision making and
independence. In our talk, Judith and I go over some
troubleshooting strategies to help pre-teens who are really going
through it.


But middle school isn’t just hard for kids...it’s also tough on
their parents.


Parenting Through Puberty


There are a lot of reasons why this period is so hard for
parents. For some, it’s challenging to give their kids the
independence that middle school requires. Others are frustrated
by how their child suddenly shuts them out when they hit age
eleven or twelve. There's no shortage of frustrations in the
family when kids are in the midst of growing and figuring out the
world.


Judith and I chat about how this wasn't always a problem for
parents of gen X-ers! Adults were typically less involved in what
kids were doing in those days, and didn’t have as much trouble
letting kids do their own thing. But our culture has changed. For
better or for worse, parents have become a lot more cautious and
protective over kids’ well-being. Judith explains how social
drama and cliques are totally normal happenings for middle
schoolers, but parents who are used to being enraptured in their
kid’s lives might really struggle with letting it all unfold in
front of them.


In the episode, Judith suggests practicing self awareness and
thinking about where you’re at emotionally before stepping into a
kid’s situation. If you’re feeling anxious about your teen’s
day-today life it’s likely you’ll end up looking for info to
confirm your worries–and finding it even when it’s not there.
Plus, if kids are going through something, Judith emphasizes that
throwing your own feelings and opinions in the mix will likely
just make things even more complicated for your kid.


But what do you do when you’re kid won’t talk to you at all? One
day, they’re your closest pal, and the next, they won’t even tell
you what they did in class that day. Although it might be tough,
Judith and I are here to help!


Getting Kids to Open Up


As we’ve mentioned, kids in middle school usually don’t want to
talk to parents about what’s happening with them...or talk to
parents at all. And although kids probably aren’t trying to hurt
your feelings, it can be super painful when it feels as though
the line of connection between the two of you has been severed.
Luckily, Judith has a tried and true method for prompting a teen
to talk to you again.


For a more fruitful conversation with a middle schooler, Judith
suggests showing interest in their lives–but not too much. The
last thing kids want is to feel like they're being interrogated
or put on the spot. If you open up, you’ll have to tread lightly
so they feel comfortable. Instead of throwing a million questions
as soon as they walk in the door at 3 pm, try casually bringing
up a concern while the two of you are driving. Your eyes are on
the road, not staring deep into their soul, so they might feel a
bit more at ease!


Beyond initiating a talk, Judith and I cover how to have all
kinds of tough convos in the interview, whether it’s handling the
teenage obsession with popularity, dealing with social rejection,
or handling substance use.


In the Episode….


My talk with Judith was incredibly informative and surprising! In
addition to the topics mentioned above, we discuss:


What middle schoolers did in the nineteenth century

How to be a positive presence for a pre-teen

What psychologists are saying about marijuana use during
puberty

How our competitive culture might be hurting our kids



If you enjoyed listening to Judith, check out more of her work at
judithwarner.com. Don’t forget to subsc...