Ep 199: What the Science Says About Sexual Identity

Eliot Schrefer, author of Queer Ducks, joins us to shine a light
on how same-sex relationships and gender fluidity occur naturally
in the animal kingdom—and how to use this knowledge as a
conversation starter about sex and gender in your home.


Sponsored by Equip: Eating disorder treatment
that works—delivered at home. Visit equip.health/talking for more
information, and a free consultation.


Full show notes


Talking to kids about gender and sexuality isn’t easy. Maybe you
want to start the conversation but don’t know how to approach it,
or maybe teens are dropping some terminology about their identity
that you don’t quite understand. These days, kids seem to have an
entirely new language to label their sexual preferences and
gender, and it can make parents feel confused or alienated. Not
to mention, it can be pretty awkward to discuss sex, no matter
who or what our kids are interested in!





But starting this conversation signals to kids that you accept
them–which can be incredibly powerful. A recent study by the
Trevor Project found that 42% of gay teens have considered
suicide…and in many of these cases, parents didn’t even know
their own child was gay. Whether your teen is out and proud or
struggling in silence, they’ll certainly benefit from an open
conversation around sexuality and gender in your home.





So how can we get our teens talking about sexuality? Well, we can
start by reminding them that it’s totally natural! This week,
we’re sitting down with Eliot Schrefer, author of Queer Ducks
(and Other Animals): The Natural World of Animal Sexuality. Eliot
is a New York Times bestselling young adult novelist and book
reviewer for USA Today. While getting a Masters in Animal Studies
at New York University, Eliot learned the fascinating ways that
the natural world defies heterosexuality and gender binaries–and
decided to write a book about it!





In our eye-opening interview, Eliot dives into how various
species exhibit homosexuality and gender-bending behaviors in the
wild! We also talk about how we can start breaking down
heteronormative narratives for our teens, and how we use certain
language to help teens feel comfortable opening up about their
own gender and sexuality.



Gender and Sex In Other Species


We’ve all likely been raised to believe that humans are the only
species that exhibits homesexual tendencies…but that couldn’t be
further from the truth! In fact, according to Eliot, there are
around 1500 different species in the animal kingdom that have
significant same-sex interactions in the wild. We often don’t see
this in nature documentaries because most animals are sexually
monomorphic, meaning they look the same to humans regardless of
their gender. However, these creature are definitely involved in
same-sex relationships, according to scientists. 





But why would animals behave this way? Isn’t their main goal to
reproduce and pass on their gene pool? Eliot explains that while
reproducing is significant to these animals, they’re also
interested in the oxytocin–the feel-good chemical that motivates
animals to bond and floods the brain during sex. This oxytocin
can lead animals to have intercourse with those of the same sex,
to not only feel good, but also form strong social ties within
their community that can give them a competitive survival
advantage.





In our interview, Eliot and I discuss various species who have
both same-sex and reproductive sexual relationships. Eliot
explains that some species like bonobos, our closest primate
relative, actually have more female-on-female sex than
reproductive, male-on-female intercourse. Similarly, male
bottlenose dolphins will mate with females to reproduce, but only
form long-term partnerships with other males–having sex over 2.4
times an hour while the females raise the baby on their own!





There are lots of other examples same-sex relationships among
other species, which we discuss in the episode. Eliot explains
how some animals break the gender binary, while others have
asexual same-sex partnerships! All of this occurs naturally in
the animal kingdom, reminding us that nature isn’t
heteronormative or cisgender. Eliot and I talk about how we can
work towards helping kids understand that their identities are
also natural and not something to be ashamed of.





Should We Censor Sexuality?





Growing up in a different generation, we were rarely given
helpful or even accurate information about homosexuality. In the
episode, Eliot shares an anecdote about growing up as a gay
youth, trying to find more resources or confirmation about his
own sexuality. Instead, he found damaging and confusing
information that made him feel as though he had a defect! This
hurt his confidence and self-esteem for years, and kept him from
coming out to his friends and family. And although resources have
certainly improved, there’s still work to be done, Eliot
explains.





In our interview, we discuss recent legislation which attempts to
restrict the inclusion of gay and trans identities in children’s
school curiculum. The logic behind this is to keep the existence
of gay or transgender individuals out of kids heads, so that they
won’t be “swayed” to change their own identiies, says Eliot. The
underlying assumption is that questioning our sexuality is
unnatural…but the prevalance of same-sex intercourse across
species begs to differ, says Eliot. It’s inherent within all the
members of the animal kingdom we coevolved with, he explains, and
isn’t something you should stop any kid from learning about.





That might prompt us to ask a question oft researched in the late
20th century–is there a distinguishable gene that indicates if is
someone gay? Eliot shares some research from the 1990s that
tested the genes of fruit flies and claimed to have discovered
the “gay” gene–but this study was conducted and sensationalized
during a time of high anxiety over the gay population…and was
later debunked. Modern research which examines the sexuality of
identical twins separated at birth has found that sexual
preferences are determined by a mix of genetics and cultural
factors…and that there is no identifiable “gay” gene. Eliot and I
dive further into this research in our interview!





All this scientific information might interest a teen who is
questioning their own gender or sexuality. Eliot and I are
helping you understand the best way to approach a conversation
about all this with a teen, even if you don’t know where to
start.



Helping Teens Feel Accepted





When kids start busting out words we’ve never heard to describe
their gender or sexual preferences, we can feel intimdated or out
of touch. Words like “demisexual” or “genderfluid” might have us
scratching our heads, wondering if we’ll ever understand. It can
make us want to avoid the conversation altogether! Eliot says
that even he struggles with this occasionally, despite being the
author of several books about sexuality and being a part of the
lgbtq+ community himself.





However, he urges us not to pull back when we find ourselves
confused by a new word, but instead push through and understand
what it means for our kids’ identity. It can be incredibly
significant to our teens if we just make the effort to understand
and accurately use these labels, Eliot says. These words give
teens a shorthand to communicate who they are, and help them
start to build a strong definition of the...