US Offshore Wind Struggles, Lawsuit on Osage Land Continues

Legal battles in Oklahoma continue between the Osage Nation and
Enel. Equinor faces offshore wind project hurdles amidst U.S.
offshore wind regulatory issues. Plus a rebranding announcement
from Deutsche Windtechnik to DWT and a new study painting wind
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today. Now here's your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, Phil Totaro,
and Rosemary Barnes.  Allen Hall: There's more news out
of Oklahoma. The state of Oklahoma has. Entered the legal ballot
between the wind developer in EL and the Osage nation. It, we all
recall on the podcast probably a year ago where the Osage Nation
had won a lawsuit with the help of the federal government to take
down a big wind farm in north central Oklahoma. The state of
Oklahoma has filed an amicus brief opposing the immediate removal
of the 84 turbines in Osage County. Now, this is a big
deal [00:01:00] because pretty much the last I saw, which
is a while ago, the order was that they needed to take down all the
turbines and reclaim the land, basically put it back to where it
was before the turbines were placed in it. Now the state of
Oklahoma is stepping into the mix and they're citing a couple of
things. They're saying that the state of Oklahoma has an interest
in property laws and protecting tax revenue. However, Osage doesn't
fit into Oklahoma laws. It's not their territory. And meanwhile,
the Osage tribe is saying, Hey, this is over and we have mineral
rights, and these turbines need to come down. So this is a kind of
a weird spot because Anelle's in the middle of this, now that the
state's gotten involved against the federal government, is there a
missing link here? Is, this is certain more to this story because
it does seem like some wheels are turning at the moment. I
think,  Joel Saxum: Phil Allen.[00:02:00] You guys are
very smart, right? But I think we need someone smarter than us to
decode this whole thing as far as like maybe a lawyer that can get
in there, because Alan, you hit it on the head, Osage tribe and
Osage tribe lands do not actually fall under Oklahoma law. They
have their own sets of laws, so you have a federal ruling saying
that something must happen within, of course, the outlines of the
state of Oklahoma, but within the greater outlines of the United
States. But now the state wants to be able to go against the
federal ruling to have their own rights recounted for while this,
the Oage tribe is saying no, like we've already passed and I think
the total bill that NL is gonna was supposed to get stamped, it was
like $300 million, which is crazy 'cause it doesn't cost $300
million to remediate 84 turbines. However. This isn't necessarily a
wind turbine take down exercise. This is a mining reclamation
exercise after you take the wind turbines down. That's why it costs
so much. [00:03:00] So there's a lot of money on the
table for nl and now you have the Oklahoma Solicitor General Jerry
Gary Gaskins stepping in and saying Hey, we're also getting some
kind of tax revenues to the state and things like that from the
wind farm. But I wouldn't think that would go to the state in this
case. I would think it would go to the Osage tribe. So I don't
understand the state's. The state's position in this.  Phil
Totaro: But Phil, do you have any insights on that?
Unfortunately, I do not. But what's interesting about it is that
you had, the federal government stepped into this whole thing
because they. Felt like the tribe wasn't being adequately
represented basically, or if they were representing themselves or
they had, attorneys representing them. The federal government
stepped in because of the nature of the case and how the high
profile would've been to, to say that yes, the tribe actually has
these these mineral rights on what is effectively there. They're a
chunk [00:04:00] of the United States as you're saying,
it's, they're physically located within the confines of Oklahoma,
but they are their own little thing, so I. Yeah I, unfortunately I
don't, and you're right, we probably need somebody smarter than any
of us to figure out what is really going on with this other than
obviously the state. Whatever money the state gets from any kind of
tax revenue, they don't want to ever see it go away. So it can be a
nickel and they'll still chase after you for it.  Joel
Saxum: But here's the other thing and Alan, I wanna get your 2
cents on what my thought is here. This is my theory, my working
theory. NL has a removal order on hold pending their appeals to the
federal court. I think that as soon as 10 years and one day from
commissioning date comes up, this whole thing's gonna get dropped.
And they're gonna, they're gonna take this wind farm down. 
Allen Hall: That's what I was wondering. Is it a repowering
play that once they get to the end of the PPA life or the PTC life.
Does this thing not matter [00:05:00] anymore and they're
just trying to delay it and maybe the state of Oklahoma is helping
anelle with that. It is odd. When did this farm go in, Joel? It
went in 20 16,  Joel Saxum: 17. It started in 2013, but
it wasn't. Commissioning until 2015. But that was the initial, that
was the initial thing. So PTC does a start until commission day. So
that's, it's it's this year, like it's 10 years is up this year
sometime. So what is the play here? It's push off until PTC
revenues are pulled. And then once PTC revenues are pulled, dcom,
you know what I, Joel, I like that theory. I'm gonna  Phil
Totaro: go with that.  Joel Saxum: I think that's
what it is. Because they're not gonna let 'em repower it. I can
guarantee you that's not gonna happen.  Phil Totaro: I
think it's, it makes sense to me that they would just be trying to
stretch it out because what else is the play here? Because if,
'cause again, if the state's taking some kind of tax revenue, it's
probably tax off the sale of the power, which probably goes to the
utility, which has nothing to do with the Osage nation, which make
would make even more sense. And then. Because of the production tax
credit, [00:06:00] they get to take extra tax revenue off
the power sales. So that's probably a reason why the state would
wanna step in and try to, stretch this thing out until the end of
that PTC period. I gotta tell you, this is the, this is
armchair  Joel Saxum: math and I'm saying PTC credits are
like 26 bucks. A megawatt hour, 26 bucks, a megawatt hour, 84
turbines at 1.79 megawatts, which is what these are. Is 150.4
megawatts, I'm gonna give them a 40% capacity factor, which is
being a little bit generous. That equates to $1.126 million per
month in PTC credits. So you extend this thing for six months,
that's 7 million, seven and a half million dollars in L'S pocket.
If they can stretch this thing for seven months just of PTC
credits, it'll help pay for the decommissioning. Allen
Hall: Because that's where it's headed. Yeah. And the federal
court system is not [00:07:00] something to play around
with, so you gotta tread lightly here because if the federal court
feels like this is just being a delay tactic to increase revenue,
that will come with penalties, typically, that $7 million will go
right back. You go right into the Osage nations. Yeah. Yeah. It's
interesting developing. Gotta keep track of it now because it's
moved into a really unique phase beyond what I thought was
possible. I didn't think the state of Oklahoma's gonna wade into
this, but here we are Deutsche Wind Technique, which if you don't
know Deutche wind technique, where have you been? They have
announced a strategic rebranding. To DWT, which is what everybody
calls Deutsche Wind Technique in the states. It's DWT. We never
used Deutsche Wind Technique and it's going to take effect in what,
five different places? United States, Poland, which is odd, but,
okay. France, I get United Kingdom obvious in Taiwan.[00:08:00] And
the company employs about 2,400 people at the minute, and they
service about 8,000 wind turbines across 10 countries. So this is
trying to address the whole pronunciation, spelling of Deutsche
Wind. And, but at least in this states, because our spelling's
atrocious, let's just admit it. But they're gonna keep the dornell
wind technique the same and not changing it in Germany, Sweden, the
Netherlands, and Belgium. Which again makes sense. That's why
Poland is in that weird offset one. Yeah.  Joel
Saxum: But why just do it, just change it to DWT across the
board? Maybe. Yeah. You can leave Deutsche Wind Technique in their
summer, but Brandon has DWT across the board. It'll be  Allen
Hall: easier. Oh, you think so? The swag is gonna be great.
The DWT swag is perfect, right? The three letter acronym that fits
right on a hat. Come on,  Joel Saxum: by the way. DWT if
you guys are looking to send swag anywhere, we can give you all of
our addresses. We will take it and wear it on the shelf. I got no
problem with that, right? I think this
is [00:09:00] great, right? Deutsche Wind Technique,
technique. Technique, doche, like wherever you go, right? You hear
someone say it differently. Yeah, I think it's gonna be it's good
for the brand. Even the, I hope they change their emails. Please,
if someone's listening, change your email aliases to just DDWT
instead of having to type that off. But yeah, good move.