Episode 234: Simon Vansintjan on Mirlo

Guest Simon Vansintjan Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this
episode, host Richard Littauer and guest Simon Vansintjan dive into
the topic of open-source sustainability in the music industry.
Simon, a long-time friend of Richard and a seasoned coder and
designer, introduces Mirlo, an innovative online platform he's
working on that combines elements of Bandcamp and Patreon to enable
direct financial support for musicians. Mirlo, an open-source
project built with a full-stack TypeScript, Express, Redis,
Postgres, and React, aims to provide an alternative to traditional
music streaming services by focusing on direct artist support and
community engagement. Simon discusses the challenges and benefits
of building Mirlo as a cooperative, the intricacies of its
development and funding model, and the broader implications of
open-source principles in creating a more equitable and sustainable
ecosystem for musicians. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:38]
What is Mirlo? Simon explains it’s an online record store where
users can buy digital music directly from musicians and provide
monthly support, similar to a combination of Bandcamp and Patreon.
[00:02:32] Simon discusses Mirlo’s open source status and its tech
stack, which includes TypeScript/JavaScript, Express, Redis,
Postgres, and React. [00:03:13] Richard inquires about the origins
of Mirlo, and Simon describes his work with Resonate, issues with
legacy code, and the decision to create Mirlo to explore
sustainable business models without venture capital. [00:04:16] We
hear that Spotify isn’t profitable as Simon discusses the
challenges streaming service face, which led Mirlo to adopt a
different model. [00:05:04] Simon explains Mirlo’s co-op structure,
focusing on worker empowerment and non-hierarchical
decision-making, contrasting it with Resonate’s multi-stakeholder
co-op model. [00:08:57] Richard asks about Mirlo’s sustainability
model. Simon describes Mirlo’s revenue model, which includes taking
a small cut from each sale, user contributions that cover server
costs, and plans for grants and a Kickstarter campaign. [00:10:23]
Simon explains the complexities of starting as a nonprofit and the
decision to form an LLC for greater flexibility. [00:11:03] Richard
questions the distinction between artists and worker owners. Simon
discusses the different models for including musicians as
co-owners, ongoing experimentation with the co-op structure, and
the importance of recognizing musicians’ contributions to Mirlo.
[00:13:07] The conversation turns to contributors to the GitHub
codebase, and Richard mentions a couple of contributors and wonders
if they have equal shares as worker owners. Simon explains that
neither contributor is a worker owner, and he talks about the
challenges in tracking contributions for co-ownership. [00:16:28]
Simon highlights the slow process of building trust and the
challenges posed by financial constraints, emphasizing the need for
time and money. [00:18:29] Richard shifts focus to the codebase and
notes the absence of contributing docs, asking about the onboarding
process for new contributors. Simon explains their use of a Discord
server for feedback and onboarding. [00:20:18] Richard questions
the benefits of being open source for Mirlo, and Simon emphasizes
all the significant benefits of being open source. [00:21:30]
Mirlo’s competitive space is brought up and Simon acknowledges the
moral aspect and mentions Mirlo’s near feature parity with
Bandcamp, excluding merch and label support. He explains the Mirlo
isn’t necessarily trying to compete directly with major platforms
but aims to create a diverse, open, and transparent internet space.
[00:23:52] Simon explains the Kickstarter rewards, including a
compilation album and merch, and when it ends. [00:25:31] Richard
praises Mirlo’s intentional cooperative approach and its efforts to
maintain and grow the platform sustainably and Simon encourages
listeners to go check out Mirlo, mentioning he has purchased music
from the platform. [00:26:19] Find out where you can follow Simon
online. Quotes [00:16:46] “A lot of [this project] is built on
trust. It takes a long time to build trust with people.” [00:20:25]
“The code is much better for [being open source].” [00:21:06]
“Being open source generates trust.” [00:22:05] “We’re noticing
that people care about it being a co-op, and that people care about
it being open source.” Spotlight [00:27:12] Richard’s spotlight is
Ryo Fukui, a Japanese jazz pianist. [00:27:48] Simon’s spotlight is
the book, “Noise Uprising: The Audiopolitics of a World Musical
Revolution.” Links SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS
Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/sustainoss.bsky.social)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/)
podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) SustainOSS
Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Open
Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
(https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Socials
(https://www.burntfen.com/2023-05-30/socials) Simon Vansintjan
Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@simon@social.coop)
Sustain-Episode 129:Per Ploug and the Spotify FOSS Fund
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/129) Resonate
(https://resonate.coop/) Mirlo (https://mirlo.space/) Mirlo
Kickstarter: Musicians as worker-owners in co-operatives
(https://mirlo.space/team/posts/26/) Ryo Fukui
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryo_Fukui) Scenery (Ryo Fukui album)
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scenery_(Ryo_Fukui_album)) Noise
Uprising: The Audiopolitics of a World Musical Revolution by
Michael Denning
(https://www.versobooks.com/products/83-noise-uprising) Credits
Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by
Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
(https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Simon Vansintjan.