Episode 261: Alexander Petros on htmx and sustainable, simpler tools

Guest Alexander Petros Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Join
host Richard Littauer as he dives into the world of open source
sustainability with Alexander Petros, core maintainer of htmx and
freelance software engineer. Today, they explore the evolution of
HTML, the power of lightweight web protocols, and the broader
implications of open-source software for the future of the web.
Alexander shares his insights on building sustainable digital
infrastructure, using simple tools effectively, and rethinking web
development paradigms. Hit download now! [00:01:40] Alexander
explains htmx as a lightweight front-end JavaScript library
enhancing HTML capabilities. [00:03:16] There’s a discussion about
HTML’s design for behavior and interactivity and a comparison of
traditional HTML with modern practices, including JavaScript-heavy
frameworks. [00:05:50] We hear the origins of htmx, how it started
as a jQuery extension called intercooler.js, and the evolution
during the pandemic to a standalone library. [00:09:16] Alexander
explains building for the long term, why lightweight, adaptable
systems matter, and reflects on the durability of early web
standards and tools. [00:12:17] Richard inquires about what
Alexander envisions a hundred years from now with htmx. [00:14:57]
Balancing simplicity and scalability is discussed about HTML’s
capabilities for large-scale applications and why many developers
overcomplicate solutions unnecessarily. [00:17:40] Alexander
critiques over-reliance on tools like Docker and large-scale build
systems and advocates for simpler development environments like
SQLite. [00:19:42] Alexander talks about why open source frameworks
like React solve organizational problems for tech giants.
[00:25:42] Richard tells us he’s been spending time on the
International Code of Zoological Nomenclature as a foundational
system for species classification and Alexander speaks about the
challenges of contributing to protocols governed by large
corporations and why HTML remains a uniquely sustainable and
universal platform. [00:28:22] Richard asks Alexander if he’s
thought about the 1000 year approach to the work he’s doing.
[00:32:21] Find out where you can follow Alexander and his blog
online. Quotes [00:13:11] “The web is going to be the most
effective delivery mechanism for software for the next couple of
decades.” [00:14:12] “If we look at the tools that we have
available today, which tools can we use that are most likely to get
us to that fifty, hundred year useful piece of software?”
[00:24:06] “Different structural project models produce very
different software.” Spotlight [00:33:11] Richard’s spotlight is
the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature. [00:34:07]
Alexander’s spotlight is better-sqlite3. Links SustainOSS
(https://sustainoss.org/) podcast@sustainoss.org
(mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) richard@sustainoss.org
(mailto:richard@sustainoss.org) SustainOSS Discourse
(https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Mastodon
(https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Open
Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
(https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Socials
(https://www.burntfen.com/2023-05-30/socials) Alexander Petros
Website (https://alexanderpetros.com/) Alexander Petros LinkedIn
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/apetros/) Unplanned Obsolescence
(Alexander’s Blog) (https://unplannedobsolescence.com/) Building
the Hundred-Year Web Service with htmx- Alexander Petros (YouTube)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lASLZ9TgXyc) htmx
(https://htmx.org/) Sustain Podcast-Episode 238: Julia Evans and
Wizard Zines (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/238) xkcd-927: How
Standards Proliferate (https://xkcd.com/927/) Julia Evans Blog
(https://jvns.ca/) International Code of Zoological Nomenclature
(ICZN) (https://www.iczn.org/) better-sqlite3
(https://github.com/WiseLibs/better-sqlite3) Credits Produced by
Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr
at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by
DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)
Special Guest: Alexander Petros.