Episode 264: Neil Chue Hong on the Software Sustainability Institute

Guest Neil Chue Hong Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman
Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, hosts Richard Littauer and
Justin Dorfman talk with Neil Chue Hong, Director of the Software
Sustainability Institute (SSI). They discuss the SSI's mission to
sustain software used in research, the institute's history and
funding, the role of research software engineers, and the newly
launched Research Software Maintenance Fund (RSMF) with £4.8
million dedicated to supporting research software. Neil shares
insights into the collaboration, training initiatives, and policy
work done by the SSI to promote sustainability in software
development. The episode also touches on the impact of large
funding initiatives like those from the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative
and the evolving role of software development in the age of large
language models (LLMs). Hit the download button now! [00:01:44]
Neil explains SSI’s mission and purpose. [00:02:27] Richard
inquires about SSI’s funding model and how long SSI has existed.
Neil explains SSI is a government funded collaboration via UK
Research and Innovation (UKRI), and it was founded in 2010 and is
funded through 2028. [00:05:03] Richard highlights SSI’s impact and
Neil discusses how SSI helped establish “Research Software Engineer
(RSE)’ as a recognized role. [00:08:20] SSI’s annual Collaborations
Workshop (May 13-15 in Stirling, UK) is mentioned, and Neil recalls
a pivotal collaboration with Greg Wilson (Software Carpentry),
which expanded training programs. [00:11:16] Neil explains that the
SSI has evolved from consultancy to training, community
initiatives, and policy advocacy to scale its impact and ensure
long-term sustainability in research software. [00:13:57] Richard
introduces SSI’s new £4.8M Research Software Maintenance Fund
(RSMF). Neil explains it supports maintaining existing research
software and it’s funded by the UK’s Digital Research
Infrastructure Programme (UKRI). [00:16:54] A question comes up
about the geopolitical impact of this funding and Neil states the
UK is maintaining leadership in research software sustainability,
not just focusing on national capability. [00:20:54] Neil defines
research software products being targeted by the RSMF as software
used beyond its original development team. [00:22:54] Richard asks
if £4.8M is a significant investment and Neil explains this is
comparable to past UK research software grants.. [00:25:10] Neil
acknowledges Chan Zuckerberg Initiative (CZI) for improving funding
models for research software. [00:29:45] Justin asks how LLMs are
changing research software engineering. Neil compares LLMs’ impact
on software development to smartphones revolutionizing photography.
[00:34:05] Find out where you can connect with UKRI, SSI, and with
Neil on the web. Quotes [00:02:07] “We’ve got this motto: Better
Software, Better Research.” [00:29:03] “You can define what is
clearly sci-fi, you can define what is clearly research software,
but making an arbitrary cut-off point is really hard.” Spotlight
[00:35:13] Justin’s spotlight is ghostty. [00:35:40] Richard’s
spotlight is Olympus Tough cameras. [00:36:34] Neil’s spotlight is
The Carpentries and Cinema For All. Links SustainOSS
(https://sustainoss.org/) podcast@sustainoss.org
(mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) richard@sustainoss.org
(mailto:richard@sustainoss.org) SustainOSS Discourse
(https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Mastodon
(https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Open
Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
(https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Socials
(https://www.burntfen.com/2023-05-30/socials) Justin Dorfman X
(https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Neil Chue Hong LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilchuehong/)
Software Sustainability Institute (SSI)
(https://www.software.ac.uk/) Save the date for Collaborations
Workshop 2025 (CW25)-SSI
(https://www.software.ac.uk/news/save-date-collaborations-workshop-2025-cw25)
UKRI awards the Software Sustainability Institute £4.8m to
strengthen research software maintenance in the UK (SSI)
(https://www.software.ac.uk/news/ukri-awards-software-sustainability-institute-ps48m-strengthen-research-software-maintenance)
Digital Research Infrastructure Programme (UKRI)
(https://www.ukri.org/what-we-do/creating-world-class-research-and-innovation-infrastructure/digital-research-infrastructure/)
Sustain Podcast- Episode 43: Investing in Open Infrastructure with
Kaitlin Thaney
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/kaitlin-thaney) Sustain
Podcast- Episode 230: Kari L. Jordan on The Carpentries
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/kari-jordan) Sustain
Podcast- Episode 235: The State of Open Infrastructure 2024, from
IOI with Emmy Tsang
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/emmy-tsang) Open Source in
Academia Map (https://sustainoss.org/academic-map/) ghostty
(https://ghostty.org/) Olympus Tough camera
(https://explore.omsystem.com/us/en/tough) The Carpentries
(https://carpentries.org/) Cinema For All
(https://cinemaforall.org.uk/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer
(https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree
Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest:
Neil Chue Hong.