PEAK Wind Insights with Lene Hellstern

Lene Hellstern, director of engineering at PEAK Wind, discusses the
critical importance of thorough technical, commercial, and
financial due diligence before investing in wind farm projects. She
shares insights from her 24 years of experience on how developers
can avoid common pitfalls, manage risks, and build better
relationships with turbine manufacturers to ensure more accurate
power production estimates. Fill out our Uptime listener survey and
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YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the
show? Email us! Allen Hall: Wind farm developers often face a
challenging reality. Projected power output doesn't match actual
performance. This gap can mean millions in lost revenue and
unexpected challenges. This week we speak with Lene Hellstern
director of engineering at PEAK Wind. With over 24 years of
experience analyzing wind projects worldwide, Lene brings crucial
insights about what developers need to know before investing
millions in wind farm development. This is a great interview. Stay
tuned. Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining Light on Wind Energy's
brightest innovators. This is the progress Powering tomorrow. Allen
Hall: Lene, welcome to the program. Lene Hellstern: Good to be
here. Allen Hall: We've been wanting to talk to you for a long
time. So I'm glad you're on the podcast because your interaction
with developers is remarkable and the process that you go through I
think is eye-opening. 'cause I don't see that process happening at
all wind sites and in Europe I think it happens more commonly. But
in the United States not so much. Why or when developers not
consulting experts like you before, they spend hundreds of millions
of dollars. What is the problem with that? Lene Hellstern: It
actually, it does happen, but yeah, sometimes it don't. And yeah, I
might not be the right one of asking to ask this question. Maybe
you should ask them as well why don't you do it? But I, so for some
it's it's budget constraints, right? Because you're a consultant
and then they don't immediately see, how this money that I'm paying
the consultant, how does that convert into a gain? Profit. It could
be seen as some loose and money just because they're asking a lot
of questions on technical stuff. It could also be that they are
unaware, many are more into the financial part of it. And they have
this perception that it's not needed, the the technical due
diligence or the commercial due diligence as the financial, because
it's like buying a car. It is really not like buying a car. So
maybe that is, that's the reason. And that they think, the wind
always blows, so it's gotta go the turbine. But that's just not how
this world. Joel Saxum: Would it be fair to say that some of your
customers have felt the pain or they've gotten burned and that's
why they're there? Lene Hellstern: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you also,
we can ask a lot of questions in the process before you buy the
turbines. And then we can cover a lot of risks and you can mitigate
before everything falls apart. Right. And that gives them a really
good advantage, right? They can cover their themself and take all
kind of scenarios into consideration, right? And you get a much, if
you ask kindly to the OE em, you do get some answers and you get a
better collaboration with the OEM. If you conduct these technical
due diligence, if you yell and scream at them, it's not gonna go
well. No. Kill with kindness. That's much better than threats. And
I want this, and demand that and just ask, right? Allen Hall: So
what are they missing? Generally, when you're starting a due
diligence and you're walking into a new situation, what are the
highlights that a general developer just doesn't really think about
that really needs expertise like yours? Lene Hellstern: Oh, but
they don't know the consequences of the selections they do in this
process. There is a not lot of things, technical topics that you
need to make a decision on what kind of leading its protection do
you want? Of course the OEM is guiding you you also on, on various
technical topic, but you also as an owner, have some requirements
you want fulfill and sometimes they don't, they're not even aware
of what is it that is important to me. They don't know, and then
they don't know the technical consequences that they make. How does
that end up, if you, let's say you, you can some people are not
aware that turbines come with a design lifetime, but if you're
smart, you can actually run it longer. But if you prepare early.
Then it doesn't cost so much to run it longer. And if you run the
turbines for a longer time, the, your levelized cost of energy goes
down. But they don't know what they need to do technically and what
they need to cover. Let's say, I can give you an example. Without
getting too nerdy. Let's say that you need, you wanna run your wind
farm long, but you know that in this area, in order to get that,
the authorities are gonna ask for track record. They're gonna, they
wanna see data throughout the years from your control monitoring
system. But and you can provide that. Perhaps depending on if you,
in the contract, made sure that you actually have access to the
control monitoring system and that you can download the data
because if you don't have that in the contract and have that
settled upfront, it's gonna, either you won't get it because it's
not your property, you haven't made sure that you get it, or the
OEM is gonna ask you for money. So if you have that sorted out
before then, if the authorities come and say, Hey, I wanna see the
track record for your condition monitoring system, you don't need
to start paying for it. And you don't need to start digging. And so
that, that's just one example that, where we can help them and say
what is it you want? We can also say what things is it you need to
take into consideration? Joel Saxum: Steer Lene Hellstern: owner.
Joel Saxum: My question originally is, what percentage would you
think your due diligence is commercial versus technical? But at the
same time, I think that they fit together because the technical
side of things will drive the commercial and the contract side of
negotiation. Lene Hellstern: Maybe it's one third each. Financial,
commercial, and technical. Joel Saxum: That makes sense. Lene
Hellstern: And can you live with on route one? Yeah. But then it's
gonna, you're gonna be in pain. Joel Saxum: Yeah. I boil it down to
say if I was building a house, and I think I can generally as a,
this is my, me as a wind farm developer, I'm building a house and I
generally know how to do everything. However, I may not be an
expert on the foundation, but I tried it myself and now 10 years
down the line, I've got foundation issues. So while I could have
done it, I, there was a lot of things I didn't know specifically.
So that's when I would call someone like the peak team like you
have, because you have the relationships with the OEMs, you know
how to deal with them, you know the questions to ask. You've been
through these processes a ton of times. So you're that subject
matter expert. But can you focus a little bit and tell us how. The
difference between having a good relationship with the OE em or a
long standing one. 'cause I know when we were talking off air, you
were saying, sometimes I walk into me and they go, oh, le, nice to
see you. Lene Hellstern: It's a small world actually. And I've been
in this industry for 20. Four years soon. I know I don't look that
old, but I have and people, go around and you don't know when
you're meeting this person and then they sit on another side of the
table, right? So always keep good relations. Always ask nicely,
give them your arguments because if they understand what you are
gonna use the information. For then they are, they might be more
willing to give it to you. Let's take a an example. The failure
rates, right? That they really don't wanna give you that unless
they understand what it is you they're gonna use it for. Or I would
use it for and sometimes I tell 'em, okay, can I please have the
failure rates for your main components? And they say, go, no. And I
go, okay, that's fine. But the problem here is then I am gonna
guess them. And why not get it from you because. Then in my
guessing I would, although I am getting pretty good at it, but I
would put in, a, a sort of a risk, right? So it, I'm automatically
pumping it a little bit up, right? Because I'm not really sure, so
I need to cover myself here. Where if I get it from the OM and they
can tell me why did you come to this conclusion? And I can see, I
can think, okay, this is, they've done a pretty good job. They
used, the background is God knows how many turbines, so this is,
they've done their homework. I trust this. Then I, we can use it in
our calculations. So that's that's and then you don't get that from
them if they don't trust you and you started yelling and screaming
at them. And also, and when we have contract negotiations, you just
you tell them, sometimes we don't reach an agreement, but, all
wanna have things signed at the end of the day. And and tell them
why is it you are asking these questions instead of just demanding
left and right. Why is it a value to you? And then make them, give
them the arguments for internally in their organization to make
sure that you can actually have the information you need. Allen
Hall: Yeah. It, it puts PEAK Wind in a unique position here. And I
want to dive into this a little bit deeper. So you're walking into
OEM,