#10 Johan Norberg on bottom-up Green Growth and a liberation Big Climate Bang

In our conversation, Johan Norberg explained why top-down,
state-driven climate policies often fail. He warned that
"degrowth" — trying to save the planet by shrinking the economy —
risks social collapse, as economic growth underpins almost
everything we value: health, education, opportunity, and
technological progress.


Instead, Norberg argued for starting small, embracing trial and
error, and letting open markets drive continuous improvement.
Effective climate solutions, he said, emerge through competition,
innovation, and piecemeal learning — not through grand political
plans. He warned that top-down policies often create
Potemkin-style results, citing China's renewables push as a case
where impressive numbers masked real inefficiencies.


While emphasizing the need for bottom-up approaches, Johan also
recognized the case for a "big bang" climate reform: combining
serious carbon pricing, regulatory simplification, and freer
markets to unleash innovation at scale. He stressed that carbon
pricing can and should replace subsidies and micromanagement —
ideally giving revenues back to citizens to avoid government
overreach.


Despite growing protectionism and political dysfunction, Norberg
remained cautiously optimistic. He pointed to the global spread
of ideas, technology, and best practices — and to the fact that
the world's freest and most open societies have already begun to
decouple economic growth from carbon emissions. Innovation and
openness, he argued, still offer the best hope for the planet.