Ep173 Clive Washbourn of Navium: Welcome back, my friends

It's great to have Clive Washbourn back on the show. The Episode
I recorded with him two years ago has been the most downloaded of
any so far, so it’s obviously going to be good for business to do
a follow-up. But it’s more than that. Clive is one of those
people who is famous in the market. He is someone who people tell
stories about, so you’ve heard about him even if you haven’t met
him. So when he founded his Navium MGA it was a no-brainer to ask
him on the show. I had no idea what to expect. What happened was
Clive being an absolute force of nature and one of the most
revealing and fun interviews I have ever been a party to. We did
that one under a lockdown over a video call. This time we are
face-to-face in Navium’s office on Lime Street in the heart of
the London market. It makes a huge difference to be physically in
the room with someone like Clive. He really comes alive. What
follows is another tour de force which reveals what is driving
this remarkable marine MGA and what has pushed it to produce an
amazing $360mn in gross written premium. We talk about the
market, Clive’s business philosophy and where Navium is heading
and how it fits in with Pine Walk and the wider, and now
restructured, Fidelis operation. But because this is Clive, we
get into something that we rarely talk about elsewhere: Listening
back, we grapple with the true art of underwriting and how to
play yourself into a strong market position. We learn how you can
be a really technical underwriter without being the least bit
boring and how you need to be ultra-selective and teach yourself
to maximise opportunities whenever they arise. We also get an
idea of how you can turn down large amounts of under-priced
business but at the same time make the brokers keep coming back
to see you. After two interviews I’ve got my own theory. I think
people come to see Clive because they really enjoy his company. I
think he is someone you could talk to about anything and he would
make it an interesting conversation and an honest an unflinching
exchange of views. I get the feeling Clive makes all the people
he talks to feel understood and special. Here Clive even reveals
a historical interest in the battle of Waterloo and burnishes his
prog rock credentials by bursting straight into song! We both had
a lot of fun – and I learned a huge amount - and so will you.
NOTES Abbreviations: TLO is a Hull insurance abbreviation for
Total Loss Only. ULR is the Ultimate (Net) Loss ratio. Rinku
Patel is mentioned as being in the room with us. He is CEO of
Navium’s incubator Pine Walk and is also now COO of Fidelis MGU
as well as being its UK CEO. The quote ‘No battle plan survives
the first shots of war/first contact with the enemy’ has been
attributed to many, including Napoleon, but probably dates back
to an 1871 paper by Prussian Field Marshal, Helmuth von Moltke.
And finally, here’s a link to the 1973 progressive rock classic
Karn Evil 9 by Emerson, Lake & Palmer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLS0Med0s6E the original had to
be split into 3 parts so that it could fit on a vinyl LP! Clive’s
part comes in at 8’40”… LINKS We thank our naming sponsor
AdvantageGo: https://www.advantagego.com/