Episode 75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source, and SeaGL

Guest Deb Nicholson Panelists Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Alyssa
Wright | Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain!
Today, we are incredibly privileged to have as our guest, Deb
Nicholson, who is Interim General Manager and Interim Executive
Director at the Open Source Initiative, as well as a founding
organizer of the Seattle GNU/Linux Conference (SeaGL). Deb tells us
how she founded SeaGL and what she did in legislature before open
source. We learn about a blog post that Elastic wrote, how Deb
feels about it, and how OSI is addressing it. Also, we learn how
open source is looked at differently by the community and by
lawyers, and a talk Deb did about all the different patent clauses
in licenses. Find out what Deb is currently doing as the Interim
General Manager at OSI and why being kind is so important to her.
As well, if you haven’t seen the Seagulls video on YouTube, you
have to watch it! Download this episode now to find out more!
[00:02:23] Deb tells us the story of how she founded SeaGL, when
the next conference will be, and how many people come to it.
[00:05:39] Justin brings up a blog post that Elastic wrote recently
and asks Deb what her feelings are about it and wonders how OSI is
addressing it. Alyssa wonders if there was any direct conversation
with somebody from Elastic. [00:09:20] Deb explains the two groups
of people, the community and lawyers, and the differences between
what they think open source means. [00:11:20] Eric asks Deb if
Elastic deserves all the bad press and negative feelings. Deb also
tells us what approach Elastic should have taken. [00:14:22] Alyssa
asks Deb to speak more about lawyers sit in the community now and
what lawyers and people with legal expertise can do to be a part of
open source creation and sustainability. [00:16:40] Deb tells us
what she did in legislature before open source. [00:17:40] Alyssa
asks Deb how she found clarity around all these licenses, was she
ever confused about how to navigate, and if she could help people
understand and navigate through them. She mentions she did a talk
about all the different patent clauses in licenses. [00:20:52] Deb
explains how she ended up as the Interim General Manager at the OSI
and what she’s currently doing there. [00:22:14] Find out why being
kind so important to Deb. [00:25:13] Deb talks about the process of
the Cryptographic Autonomous License. [00:26:54] Richard wonders
Deb’s thoughts on setting best practices for open source in
general, not just licensing, in particular other countries.
[00:28:25] Find out where you can follow Deb on the Internet.
Quotes [00:06:23] “Basically, we didn’t really think our business
model through. We decided we were going to do one thing and then
whoops, because we didn’t think it through, now we have to change.”
[00:23:24] “It also means that when you go out and you talk to
people about your mission you sound like a person that hasn’t had a
conversation with someone about anything other than your work five
years, because you kind of haven’t.” [00:24:35] “There might be
other decisions I could affect, but like you end up sounding really
out of touch and it’s not good for your organization and for
promoting your mission if you never have perspective.” [00:24:44]
“Unfortunately, Deb, you’re one of our guests, and this happens
occasionally with our guests who are so eloquent that I can’t even
imagine a question ‘cause you just wrapped everything up in such a
nice bow that it’s like yes, that’s exactly the problem, that’s a
really good point, I totally agree, we should all have more time
off!” [00:25:05] “Take a vacation! Never forget! Even if it’s a
staycation, because, you know, pandemic.” [00:25:36] “So we don’t
draft licenses, that’s the thing we don’t do, but we do look at new
licenses, and last year we approved the Cryptographic Autonomous
License.” Spotlight [00:29:33] Alyssa’s spotlight is the launch of
FundOSS. [00:30:38] Eric’s spotlight is Exercism. [00:31:43]
Justin’s spotlights are “The Onion seagull beach interview,” and
Katacoda-Interactive Learning and Training Platform we are using
for Curiefense. [00:32:33] Richard’s spotlight is WaffleJS.
[00:32:49] Deb’s spotlight is a project called Spritely. Links Deb
Nicholson Twitter (https://twitter.com/baconandcoconut?lang=en)
SeaGL.org (https://seagl.org/) Opensource.org
(https://opensource.org/) Elastic- “Doubling Down on Open.”
(https://www.elastic.co/blog/doubling-down-on-open) SEAGULLS (Stop
it Now) – A Bad Lip Reading of The Empire Strikes Back-YouTube
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9t-slLl30E) LibrePlanet 2021
(https://libreplanet.org/2021/) Open Source Initiative-The SSPL is
Not an Open Source License (https://opensource.org/node/1099)
Social Linux Expo SCaLE19x-March 2022
(https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/19x) Mill City Triatholon
(https://www.trisignup.com/Race/MA/Lowell/MillCityTriathlon)
Podcast-SustainOSS-Episode 62 with Richard Fontana
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/62) Podcast-SustainOSS -Episode 23
with Josh Simmons (https://podcast.sustainoss.org/23)
Podcast-SustainOSS-Episode 37 with Patrick Masson
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/37) “Don’t Fear the Patent Clause,”
with Deb Nicholson-YouTube
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqMdaKE8zkI) Cryptographic
Autonomy License-GItHub
(https://github.com/holochain/cryptographic-autonomy-license)
FundOSS.org (https://fundoss.org/) Open Collective/Fund OSS
(https://opencollective.com/fundoss) Exercism.io
(https://exercism.io/) The Onion-Seagull beach interview
(https://www.theonion.com/seagull-with-diarrhea-barely-makes-it-to-crowded-beach-1819574572)
Katacoda (https://www.katacoda.com/) Curiefense
(https://www.katacoda.com/curiefense) WaffleJS
(https://wafflejs.com/) Spritely Project
(https://spritelyproject.org/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer
(https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree
Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest:
Deb Nicholson.