Episode 91: Brazil JavaMan Souza on Open Source and the history of Java
vor 4 Jahren
Podcast
Podcaster
Beschreibung
vor 4 Jahren
Guest Bruno Souza Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman Show
Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about
sustaining open source for the long haul. If you’re looking to
learn more about Java, this is the episode you really need to
listen to. Today, our guest is Bruno Souza, a Brazillian Java
programmer and a member of the OSI. Bruno is the Founder of
SouJava, a Brazillian Java User Group which became the world’s
largest, he was involved with some of the earliest JVM’s, and has
been very influential not only in Brazil, but in the Java open
source works at large. Bruno goes in depth on how he got involved
in open source, getting involved in the OSI, and in Java. We also
learn more about what Kotlin means for the community, how OpenJDK
was extremely important for Java, and how Oracle really embraced
the idea of OpenJDK. You will soon understand why Bruno is known as
the “Brazilian JavaMan.” Go ahead and download this episode now to
find out more! [00:01:44] Bruno explains how he got involved in
open source and how long he’s been a developer. [00:03:46] We learn
how Bruno got involved in the OSI early on and how he got involved
in Java. [00:07:12] Justin asks Bruno how he felt during the legal
proceedings on Oracle v. Google. [00:12:35] Richard wonders how the
Brazilian government got in touch with Bruno and what role has
Brazil played in open source. Bruno mentions a manifesto that his
Java group wrote along with other user groups in Brazil, explaining
how they, as developers, saw open source and standards. [00:21:51]
Justin asks Bruno to talk about what Kotlin means for the community
and what other projects took advantage of the OpenJDK contribution.
[00:28:41] Richard asks who is paying the current Java maintainers
and how do we make sure that companies are responsible in doing
that. [00:35:14] Find out where you can find Bruno on the internet.
Quotes [00:05:15] “So, for me that discussion really opened my eyes
on how important it was for a developer to have access to the
source code of the things they are doing.” [00:06:19] “The adoption
of Java was important because they were looking for freedom because
they wanted to be free from the vendors.” [00:06:47] “And so for
me, when I started discussing open source in 2000, my whole
objective was to discuss those two freedoms together, the freedom
to choose different vendors and the freedom to do what you want
with the software you’re using.” [00:09:01] “And so for me, it was
more like Google was relying and benefitting from the Java tools,
from all the knowledge on Java, for all the developers that knew
Java.” [00:09:12] “But at the same time, they did not commit to the
community.” [00:09:25] “And then when Oracle took over and they
made the lawsuit, right, the problem with the lawsuit was, in terms
of copywriting, it was damaging, I think. The way the lawsuit was
done was damaging for developers, for software in fact.” [00:11:00]
“Sometimes it’s like you’re swimming side by side with whales. The
whale doesn’t even know you’re there, doesn’t care that you’re
there. If the whale decides to move in another direction, you’re
dead.” [00:16:20] “The interesting thing is that the Brazilian open
source community at that time was mostly comprised of people using
open source, so Linux, and Open Office, so basically people suing
tools. And the Java community in Brazil was by far the strongest
development community that was developing for Linux using Java. So
then basically, we are bringing in the developer discussion.”
[00:16:46] “So, for us, the whole point to us, you know, it’s not
only about deciding to use open source, it’s about to develop
basing your code on the standards and open source software.”
[00:17:19] “You can buy software from someone, you can download
software from someone, but the big effort that you actually do is
to write your own software.” [00:23:15] “And, I think this was very
important because Oracle did do amazingly with Java in open source
because Oracle really embraced the whole idea of OpenJDK.”
[00:26:15] “I think that having Java open source allows you to base
other languages on top of the Java VM.” [00:26:55] “But Java is the
runtime in all history, the runtime that will have received more
investments from companies.” [00:27:30] “Honestly for me as a
developer, I see languages as tools.” [00:29:24] “So we still have
to battle that with the developer.” [00:29:27] “I mean look, the
biggest beneficiary of open source is the software developer.”
[00:29:33] “You know you can talk about companies can benefit, you
can talk users can benefit, there’s lots of benefits around open
source.” [00:30:01] “So, I think the biggest thing that we can do
is actually show to companies how beneficial it is for them.”
[00:31:15] “But, the more Twitter can get that stuff and put on the
VM the less difference there is in between the open source version
and what Twitter does, the less differences there are, the more
Twitter can benefit from the advancements of the Java VM.”
[00:32:56] “Reality, if you want to make sustainable open source,
what you have to do is that we have to show the companies how
valuable it is that code they have in their hands.” [00:33:14]
“They’re not doing the work on the open source code.” [00:33:55]
“You know it’s like companies that let their open source software
be in this precarious situation they are throwing money down the
drain.” [00:34:05] “They’re really ignoring the huge value they
have in their hands and if that value disappears, they are going to
pay for it… heavily!” [00:35:39] “Uncle Bob says that every five
years we double the number of developers, so every five years half
of the developers never heard of any of that.” [00:38:02] “I think
open source in general needs love, needs more people giving and
less people taking.” Spotlight [00:36:38] Justin’s spotlight is
Coffeezilla on YouTube. [00:36:55] Richard’s spotlight is a book
called, The Great Book of Amber by Roger Zelazny. [00:37:26]
Bruno’s spotlight is a book called, Give and Take by Adam Grant.
Links SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Bruno
Souza Twitter
(https://twitter.com/brjavaman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Bruno Souza Linkedin (https://br.linkedin.com/in/brjavaman) Bruno
Souza Website (https://java.mn/) Bruno Souza Wikipedia
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Souza_(programmer)) CODE4.LIFE
Blog (https://code4.life/blog/) The Best Developer Year by Bruno
Souza (Free Book) (https://skills.code4.life/bestyear/) Open
Sources 2.0: The Continuing Evolution by Chris DiBona , Mark Stone,
Danese Cooper
(https://www.amazon.com/Open-Sources-2-0-Continuing-Evolution/dp/0596008023)
SouJava (https://soujava.org.br/) Open Source Initiative
(https://opensource.org/) Software Development in the Government
Manifest (https://soujava.org.br/manifesto/) Java Community Process
(https://jcp.org/en/home/index) Kotlin (https://kotlinlang.org/)
OpenJDK (https://openjdk.java.net/) “The Brazilian Effect” by
Jonathan Schwartz
(https://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/the-brazilian-effect/)
The Clean Code Blog by Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob)
(https://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html)
[Coffeezilla](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFQMnBA3CS502aghlcr0aw)_
[The Great Book of Amber by Roger
Zelazny](https://www.amazon.com/Great-Book-Amber-Complete-Chronicles/dp/0380809060/ref=sr11?dchild=1&keywords=the+great+book+of+amber&qid=1629484187&sr=8-1)
[Give and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success by Adam
Grant](https://www.amazon.com/Give-Take-Helping-Others-Success/dp/0143124986/ref=sr11?crid=2AHWXS5L9E13O&dchild=1&keywords=give+and+take+adam+grant&qid=1629484296&sprefix=Give+and+Take%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-1)
Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/)
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
(https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest:
Bruno Souza.
Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about
sustaining open source for the long haul. If you’re looking to
learn more about Java, this is the episode you really need to
listen to. Today, our guest is Bruno Souza, a Brazillian Java
programmer and a member of the OSI. Bruno is the Founder of
SouJava, a Brazillian Java User Group which became the world’s
largest, he was involved with some of the earliest JVM’s, and has
been very influential not only in Brazil, but in the Java open
source works at large. Bruno goes in depth on how he got involved
in open source, getting involved in the OSI, and in Java. We also
learn more about what Kotlin means for the community, how OpenJDK
was extremely important for Java, and how Oracle really embraced
the idea of OpenJDK. You will soon understand why Bruno is known as
the “Brazilian JavaMan.” Go ahead and download this episode now to
find out more! [00:01:44] Bruno explains how he got involved in
open source and how long he’s been a developer. [00:03:46] We learn
how Bruno got involved in the OSI early on and how he got involved
in Java. [00:07:12] Justin asks Bruno how he felt during the legal
proceedings on Oracle v. Google. [00:12:35] Richard wonders how the
Brazilian government got in touch with Bruno and what role has
Brazil played in open source. Bruno mentions a manifesto that his
Java group wrote along with other user groups in Brazil, explaining
how they, as developers, saw open source and standards. [00:21:51]
Justin asks Bruno to talk about what Kotlin means for the community
and what other projects took advantage of the OpenJDK contribution.
[00:28:41] Richard asks who is paying the current Java maintainers
and how do we make sure that companies are responsible in doing
that. [00:35:14] Find out where you can find Bruno on the internet.
Quotes [00:05:15] “So, for me that discussion really opened my eyes
on how important it was for a developer to have access to the
source code of the things they are doing.” [00:06:19] “The adoption
of Java was important because they were looking for freedom because
they wanted to be free from the vendors.” [00:06:47] “And so for
me, when I started discussing open source in 2000, my whole
objective was to discuss those two freedoms together, the freedom
to choose different vendors and the freedom to do what you want
with the software you’re using.” [00:09:01] “And so for me, it was
more like Google was relying and benefitting from the Java tools,
from all the knowledge on Java, for all the developers that knew
Java.” [00:09:12] “But at the same time, they did not commit to the
community.” [00:09:25] “And then when Oracle took over and they
made the lawsuit, right, the problem with the lawsuit was, in terms
of copywriting, it was damaging, I think. The way the lawsuit was
done was damaging for developers, for software in fact.” [00:11:00]
“Sometimes it’s like you’re swimming side by side with whales. The
whale doesn’t even know you’re there, doesn’t care that you’re
there. If the whale decides to move in another direction, you’re
dead.” [00:16:20] “The interesting thing is that the Brazilian open
source community at that time was mostly comprised of people using
open source, so Linux, and Open Office, so basically people suing
tools. And the Java community in Brazil was by far the strongest
development community that was developing for Linux using Java. So
then basically, we are bringing in the developer discussion.”
[00:16:46] “So, for us, the whole point to us, you know, it’s not
only about deciding to use open source, it’s about to develop
basing your code on the standards and open source software.”
[00:17:19] “You can buy software from someone, you can download
software from someone, but the big effort that you actually do is
to write your own software.” [00:23:15] “And, I think this was very
important because Oracle did do amazingly with Java in open source
because Oracle really embraced the whole idea of OpenJDK.”
[00:26:15] “I think that having Java open source allows you to base
other languages on top of the Java VM.” [00:26:55] “But Java is the
runtime in all history, the runtime that will have received more
investments from companies.” [00:27:30] “Honestly for me as a
developer, I see languages as tools.” [00:29:24] “So we still have
to battle that with the developer.” [00:29:27] “I mean look, the
biggest beneficiary of open source is the software developer.”
[00:29:33] “You know you can talk about companies can benefit, you
can talk users can benefit, there’s lots of benefits around open
source.” [00:30:01] “So, I think the biggest thing that we can do
is actually show to companies how beneficial it is for them.”
[00:31:15] “But, the more Twitter can get that stuff and put on the
VM the less difference there is in between the open source version
and what Twitter does, the less differences there are, the more
Twitter can benefit from the advancements of the Java VM.”
[00:32:56] “Reality, if you want to make sustainable open source,
what you have to do is that we have to show the companies how
valuable it is that code they have in their hands.” [00:33:14]
“They’re not doing the work on the open source code.” [00:33:55]
“You know it’s like companies that let their open source software
be in this precarious situation they are throwing money down the
drain.” [00:34:05] “They’re really ignoring the huge value they
have in their hands and if that value disappears, they are going to
pay for it… heavily!” [00:35:39] “Uncle Bob says that every five
years we double the number of developers, so every five years half
of the developers never heard of any of that.” [00:38:02] “I think
open source in general needs love, needs more people giving and
less people taking.” Spotlight [00:36:38] Justin’s spotlight is
Coffeezilla on YouTube. [00:36:55] Richard’s spotlight is a book
called, The Great Book of Amber by Roger Zelazny. [00:37:26]
Bruno’s spotlight is a book called, Give and Take by Adam Grant.
Links SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Bruno
Souza Twitter
(https://twitter.com/brjavaman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Bruno Souza Linkedin (https://br.linkedin.com/in/brjavaman) Bruno
Souza Website (https://java.mn/) Bruno Souza Wikipedia
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Souza_(programmer)) CODE4.LIFE
Blog (https://code4.life/blog/) The Best Developer Year by Bruno
Souza (Free Book) (https://skills.code4.life/bestyear/) Open
Sources 2.0: The Continuing Evolution by Chris DiBona , Mark Stone,
Danese Cooper
(https://www.amazon.com/Open-Sources-2-0-Continuing-Evolution/dp/0596008023)
SouJava (https://soujava.org.br/) Open Source Initiative
(https://opensource.org/) Software Development in the Government
Manifest (https://soujava.org.br/manifesto/) Java Community Process
(https://jcp.org/en/home/index) Kotlin (https://kotlinlang.org/)
OpenJDK (https://openjdk.java.net/) “The Brazilian Effect” by
Jonathan Schwartz
(https://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/2006/04/16/the-brazilian-effect/)
The Clean Code Blog by Robert C. Martin (Uncle Bob)
(https://blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2014/06/20/MyLawn.html)
[Coffeezilla](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFQMnBA3CS502aghlcr0aw)_
[The Great Book of Amber by Roger
Zelazny](https://www.amazon.com/Great-Book-Amber-Complete-Chronicles/dp/0380809060/ref=sr11?dchild=1&keywords=the+great+book+of+amber&qid=1629484187&sr=8-1)
[Give and Take: Why Helping Others Drives Our Success by Adam
Grant](https://www.amazon.com/Give-Take-Helping-Others-Success/dp/0143124986/ref=sr11?crid=2AHWXS5L9E13O&dchild=1&keywords=give+and+take+adam+grant&qid=1629484296&sprefix=Give+and+Take%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-1)
Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/)
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
(https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest:
Bruno Souza.
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