Episode 143: Amanda Brock of OpenUK on Open Source Law, Policy and Practice

Guest Amanda Brock Panelists Richard Littauer | Justin Dorfman |
Ben Nickolls Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast
where we talk about sustaining open source for the long haul.
Today, we have an amazing guest and she’s been on this podcast
before. Joining us is Amanda Brock, who’s the CEO of OpenUK, which
is an industry organization about the business of open technology.
She’s also a Board Member, keynote speaker, and author, with a new
book coming out soon called, Open Source Law, Policy and Practice,
that we’ll hear all about today. We’ll also be learning more about
OpenUK and the policy work they do, Amanda tells us about the All
Things Open (ATO) tech conference where she’ll be launching her
book with some incredible panelists, and we hear some goals from
Amanda for an event she’ll be attending to create a broader
engagement across UK government, where they’ll focus on security,
technical issues, and security policy issues. Go ahead and download
this episode now! [00:01:27] Amanda tells us about OpenUK, the
difference between OpenUK and the Software Sustainability Institute
(SSI), and the policy work OpenUK does. [00:04:37] We learn if
OpenUk’s mission has changed since Brexit, now that the UK is more
of an independent body as a national group and how that’s
influenced how we think about tech in Britain. [00:07:13] Amanda
tells us all about her book coming out called, Open Source Law,
Policy and Practice, that includes several authors, and the launch
of her book at ATO. [00:12:06] One of the chapters in Amanda’s book
is on sustainability and open source and since it’s relevant to
this podcast Amanda explains more about this chapter. [00:13:52]
Amanda explains some goals they have for the meeting that’s
happening on the17th of October called, “Open Source Software:
Infrastructure Curation and Security, Thought Leadership Event.”
[00:18:28] Ben asks Amanda if she thinks anything is going to
happen within the government from now until February and what she
thinks of the government’s response in the US with the executive
order around expenditure on open source in government departments
and guidance around a software bill of materials and better
understanding of what components are in software that’s using
governments. [00:22:00] Richard wonders if there’s been a
conversation about what happens if one part of the dependency stack
doesn’t want to be included or bother with having a SBOM, dealing
with the government, and refuses to do any work. [00:35:10] We hear
a mad insurance scheme Amanda had a long time ago that’s she’s
going to get some people to revisit. [00:37:02] Find out where to
follow Amanda and OpenUK online. Quotes [00:17:13] “I think it’s
really important that governments also see the level of engagement
across our communities as strong, and that we are largely united at
least body, that wants to see them understand how they do a much
better job of curating open source software and ensuring that when
they’re using it, they’re giving back both in terms of contribution
and economic contribution.” [00:20:41] “In the US, the survey
showed over 70% of organizations that are using SBOMs now.”
[00:21:45] “You should not be taking on liability for the open
source code. You should be taking on liability for the work you’re
paid to do.” [00:24:02] “Coding to me is a freedom of speech.”
[00:24:27] “My personal view is they’ll be public private
enterprises or initiatives, and they will hold code that is
sanitized or curated for usage in the public sector.” [00:24:38] “I
think we’ll see governments wanting that and it’s not an OSPO, it’s
a hybrid. It’s somewhere between a foundation and an OSPO.”
[00:27:40] “Chainguard started creating their own Docker images
with their own version of Nginx and Linux, and I think we’re going
to see that trend continue.” [00:28:29] “What we don’t want is for
governments to get everything from companies, because if they do,
they’re going to end up back in a situation of vendor lock-in.”
[00:35:58] “In the US at one time, you couldn’t buy insurance
around open source because it was too unknown. I think there’s
going to be a big space there where we can also manage some of this
risk and some of the government money can go into that too and help
protect the bigger picture.” Spotlight [00:37:58] Justin’s
spotlight is opensauced.pizza founded by Brian Douglas. [00:38:30]
Ben’s spotlight is Stellarium 1.0. [00:39:25] Richard’s spotlight
is Collins Bird Guide and the app. [00:40:39] Amanda’s spotlight is
Eddie Jaoude, a GitHub All-Star. Links SustainOSS
(https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/)
podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) Richard
Littauer Twitter
(https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Justin Dorfman Twitter
(https://twitter.com/jdorfman?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Ben Nickolls Twitter
(https://twitter.com/BenJam?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Amanda Brock-OpenUK (https://openuk.uk/profiles/amanda-brock/)
Amanda Brock Twitter (https://twitter.com/amandabrockuk) Amanda
Brock LinkedIn
(https://uk.linkedin.com/in/amandabrocktech?trk=people-guest_people_search-card)
OpenUK (https://openuk.uk/) OpenUK Twitter
(https://twitter.com/openuk_uk) OpenUK LinkedIn
(https://uk.linkedin.com/company/openuktechnology) All Things Open
Twitter (https://twitter.com/AllThingsOpen) All Things Open-2022
(https://2022.allthingsopen.org/) Sustain Podcast-Episode 49: What
OpenUK does with Amanda Brock & Andrew Katz
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/49) Open Source Law, Policy, and
Practice by Amanda Brock
(https://global.oup.com/academic/product/open-source-law-policy-and-practice-9780198862345?cc=gb&lang=en&)
Neil Chue Hong
(https://www.software.ac.uk/about/staff/person/neil-chue-hong)
Software Sustainability Institute (https://www.software.ac.uk/)
OpenForum Europe (https://openforumeurope.org/) Ecosyste.ms
(https://ecosyste.ms/) OpenSauced (https://opensauced.pizza/)
Stellarium 1.0
(https://stellarium.org/release/2022/10/01/stellarium-1.0.html)
Collins Bird Guide
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collins_Bird_Guide) Collins Bird
Guide App
(https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/collins-bird-guide-ultimate/id868827305)
Eddie Jaoude Twitter
(https://twitter.com/eddiejaoude?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Eddie Jaoude GitHub (https://github.com/eddiejaoude) Credits
Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by
Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)
Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound
(https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Amanda Brock.