Episode 169: Dawn Wages of PSF on organizing communities, ethical licenses, and more

Guest Dawn Wages Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and
welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open
source for the long haul. Today, Richard is very excited to have as
his guest, Dawn Wages, who’s the Python Community Advocate at
Microsoft, Core Team Member for Wagtail, DjangoCon Organizer, and
Director and Treasurer for the Python Software Foundation. We’ll
hear Dawn’s journey into how she got involved with the PSF and as a
Python Community Advocate at Microsoft, she explains how to become
a PSF member, as well as the benefits, since they’ve made some
changes recently. She explains where she falls on the ethical
source divide and dives into the AntiRacist Ethical Source License,
which is her niche. Also, she shares advice on how communities can
be more sustainable at navigating conflict in their communities and
reveals that we should lead with empathy. If you’re looking at
going to a conference this year, there’s some great DjangoCon’s and
a PyCon going on that are worth checking out. Hit download now to
hear more! [00:03:31] We hear how Dawn got involved with the PSF
and how she became the Python Community Advocate at Microsoft.
[00:05:23] Dawn shares why foundations in the open source space
seem to continually have this community voting way of entering into
the board, if she thinks it’s healthy, and if she thought about it
when she was working on Django’s new process. [00:08:27] Both
dollars and time are things which are often barriers to entry for
DEI, so how does that help diversity, equity, and inclusion versus
how it hurts it? Also, we hear about Wagtail and Torchbox and what
they do. [00:11:40] Dawn mentioned that the PSF lowered the dollar
amount and Open Collective, so now we hear the benefits it gives to
an individual to become a member of the PSF, if that’s something
people should think about if they’re working in Python, and if it’s
possible to join on behalf of the project and not their company.
[00:13:30] We hear about a tool called, Fiscal Sponsoree, with the
PSF. [00:14:50] Dawn fills us in on DjangoCon 2023, the financing
structure for keeping Django going, how they think about
sustainability in their community, and DjangoCon Africa 2023.
[00:16:51] What does a sponsored chair do? [00:19:04] Richard
wonders how Dawn thinks about the return on investment for her
ultimate strategy, why these conferences, and what’s the ultimate
narrative arc for her seventh season open source Bajor story. Also,
she explains why she’s the treasurer. [00:22:56] Richard explains
what the Ethical Source Movement is and wonders how Dawn holds the
tension and where she falls on the ethical source divide.
[00:24:37] We hear Richard’s opinion on one of the problems with
open source requiring a huge layout of upfront investment in hours
and time and no guarantee that it will pay off, and the work being
detrimental to mental health of people working on it. Dawn talks
about the Anti-Racist License and explains the “PIES” check-in.
[00:28:12] Dawn shares advice on how to help communities be more
sustainable at navigating trauma and conflict in their communities
without it becoming a drain on resources. [00:31:00] Listen here
for a list of conferences you should go to that are Python and
Django and where you can follow Dawn on the web. Quotes [00:08:58]
“Open source is not accessible for everyone, and it’s not a great
method for everyone. It is people who have support elsewhere
somehow.” [00:26:34] “I think there are tools we can use to be able
to acknowledge the humanity of the individuals contributing, and
being flexible and thoughtful about the goals we are trying to meet
as a collective, and the goals the individual is trying to
contribute or try to receive.” Spotlight [00:33:21] Richard’s
spotlight is his friend, Danielle Garber, who’s a personal coach
and makes amazing hand woven things. [00:34:08] Dawn’s spotlight is
Jeff Triplett, Director of PSF, and Coraline Ada Ehmke, lead
organizer for the Organization for Ethical Source. Links SustainOSS
(https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/)
podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) Richard
Littauer Twitter
(https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
Dawn Wages Twitter (https://twitter.com/BajoranEngineer) Dawn Wages
Website (https://dawnwages.info/) Dawn Wages Mastodon
(https://mastodon.online/@fly00gemini8712) Python Software
Foundation (https://www.python.org/psf-landing/) At The Root
(https://attheroot.dev/) DjangoCon 2023 (Durham, North Carolina)
(https://2023.djangocon.us/) DjangoCon 2023 (Edinburgh, Scotland)
(https://2023.djangocon.eu/) DjangoCon Africa 2023 ( Zanzibar,
Tanzania) (https://2023.djangocon.africa/) PyCon 2023 (Salt Lake
City, Utah) (https://us.pycon.org/2023/) Sustain Podcast-Episode
75: Deb Nicholson on the OSI, the future of open source, and SeaGL
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/75) Wagtail (https://wagtail.org/)
Torchbox (https://torchbox.com/) Fiscal Sponsorees
(https://www.python.org/psf/fiscal-sponsorees/) AntiRacist Ethical
Source License (https://github.com/AtTheRoot/ATR-License) Every
Thread Handwoven (Danielle Garber)
(https://www.everythreadhandwoven.com/) Jeff Triplett Website
(https://jefftriplett.com/about/) Coraline Ada Ehmke Website
(https://where.coraline.codes/) Credits Produced by Richard
Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by
DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)
Special Guest: Dawn Wages.