Episode 181: John Robb of React Flow on how we ask for money in open source

Guest John Robb Panelists Richard Littauer | Amanda Casari Show
Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! The podcast where we talk about
sustaining open source for the long haul. We’re super excited to
have guest, John Robb, joining us today. John is a Community
Manager at React Flow, an open source library for building
node-based UI. Today, John talks about how they’ve sustained the
project without investors and valuing intentionally and autonomy
over endless growth. Then, there’s a conversation around paying
contributors, supporting diverse contributors, and establishing
boundaries for a safe environment. Also, we’ll hear about the
challenges of funding open source projects, understanding the
purchase funnel, and the need for transparency and clarity around
the financial aspects of open source projects. Download this
episode now to hear more! [00:01:53] John tells us about React Flow
and how they’ve managed to sustain the project without investors.
[00:04:50] “Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for
money,” is a blog post John wrote and he used the word “ramen
profitable,” so he explains what it means. [00:06:44] John talks
about the company values intentionality and autonomy over growth
and endless expansion. [00:09:32 ] As a Community Manager, John’s
interested in thinking critically about growth and what it means to
have a community. [00:11:13] The conversation revolves around the
tension between personal greed and the desire for growth in open
source projects. [00:15:38] The group discusses the importance of
paying contributors for their work and how to invite and support a
diverse range of contributors. [00:18:33 ] John tells us about an
experience that’s been most relevant to him while doing community
management work which was at a design camp called Stone Soup that
he co-organized this year. [00:21:13] They discuss the history of
open source and how it began with large enterprises working
together on project without violating antitrust laws. [00:23:43 ]
There’s a conversation about the importance of understanding the
purchase funnel and how to make it easier for individuals and
organizations to donate or support open source projects. [00:25:44]
The group highlights the need for more transparency and clarity
around the financial aspect of open source projects. [00:33:05 ]
Find out where you can follow John on the web and get in touch with
him. Quotes [00:08:08] “We’ve all been raised in this business
culture to seek for something bigger and greater, and to grow a
company as large as one can. But the tradeoff is great.” [00:09:37]
“Do we want to scale our community?” [00:09:45] “Having more
contributors makes things more difficult for them.” [00:14:48]
“Just talking about the number of contributors isn’t going to
help.” [00:15:46] “Being able to pay people in open source is good.
People being able to be paid for their work is good.” [00:16:02]
“Free time is a privileged resource.” [00:19:20] “How do you invite
people and how do you know who you want to bring to the event and
who not?” Spotlight [00:33:49] Amanda’s spotlight is the csv,conf
2023. [00:34:39] Richard’s spotlight is the ABA Podcast (American
Birding). [00:35:19] John’s spotlight is The Hippocratic License
3.0. Links SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/)
podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) SustainOSS
Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Richard
Littauer-iNaturalist
(https://www.inaturalist.org/people/richardlitt) Richard Littauer
Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@richlitt) Amanda Casari Twitter
(https://twitter.com/amcasari/) John Robb LinkedIn
(https://de.linkedin.com/in/johnrobbjr) John Robb Twitter
(https://twitter.com/johnrobbjr) John Robb Mastodon
(https://mastodon.social/@johnrobbjr) John Robb email
(mailto:johnhrobb@gmail.com) React Flow (https://reactflow.dev/)
Dear Open Source: let’s do a better job of asking for money by John
Robb (https://reactflow.dev/blog/asking-for-money-for-open-source/)
Juli Sikorska LinkedIn (https://de.linkedin.com/in/julisikorska)
Stone Soup (https://stonesoup.live/) The Green Bottle: Personal
Financial Experience sliding scale
(http://www.wortsandcunning.com/blog/sliding-scale) Money and Open
Source by Isaacs
(https://medium.com/open-source-life/money-and-open-source-d44a1953749c)
The Ethics of Unpaid Labor and the OSS Community by Ashe Dryden
(https://www.ashedryden.com/blog/the-ethics-of-unpaid-labor-and-the-oss-community)
csv,conf 2023 (https://csvconf.com/) American Birding Podcast
(https://www.aba.org/podcast/) The Hippocratic License 3.0
(https://firstdonoharm.dev/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer
(https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree
Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest:
John Robb.