Episode 205: FOSSY 2023 with Richard Littauer

Guest Richard Littauer Panelist Karen Sandler Show Notes Hello and
welcome to Sustain! In this episode, the tables are turned today as
Karen Sandler takes over as host, interviewing our very own Richard
Littauer. Recorded at the Free and Open Source Yearly conference,
the discussion delves into Richard’s evolving perspective on
sustainability in open source projects. His experiences attending
multiple conferences have led him to question the term
‘sustainability,’ advocating instead for a shift towards values
such as human rights, joy, and mitigating harm. Also, Richard and
Karen explore the significance of user rights, copyleft licensing,
and GPL, voicing concerns over the erosion of these rights. They
end with a discussion on the systemic complexities in the open
source world, the potential for a new community approach to
sustainable code, and an emphasis on collective action and personal
joy. Press download to hear more cool stuff! [00:00:58] Richard
offers a detailed insight into his talk. He explains his
perspective on sustainability, suggesting it may not be the most
fitting term when applied to the open source community. He shares
his experience attending multiple sustain conferences and how it
shaped his views, and discusses sustainability for developers,
touching upon burnout, recognition, and issues of dependency,
supply chain, security, and legal issues. [00:03:31] He notes the
wide range of topics covered in the Sustain podcasts, highlighting
the complexity of sustainability. He questions the usefulness of
the term ‘sustainability’ and suggests we need to focus on what
truly matters in life, such as human rights, mitigating harm, and
seeking joy. [00:04:39] Karen reviews the flow of Richard’s talk,
and he summarizes his talk questioning the emphasis on
sustainability and growth, recommending instead to focus on joy and
relieving suffering. [00:05:55] Richard advocates for focusing on
personal fulfillment and societal impact instead of simply growth
and funding. He emphasizes that the ultimate goal should be about
human rights, liberties, and happiness. [00:07:20] Karen wonders if
Richard is going to rename the podcast. He maintains his support
for open source but stresses the importance of focusing on impact
and human values. He emphasizes the importance of considering one’s
own project in the larger context and evaluating its actual
importance. [00:08:47] Richard discusses the importance of GPL for
user protections and shares concerns about devices locking users
out, he shares his changing stance towards GPL and the impact of
his code. [00:09:36] Karen and Richard discuss the potential for a
new community approach to sustainable code, and Richard suggests
that sharing stories and rethinking relationships with technology
is a way forward. [00:10:46] Karen asks Richard about his views on
corporate power, and he explains how his view has evolved.
[00:12:04] They discuss the systematic problems and individual
roles within them. Richard explores the conundrum of trying to
change a system from the inside or outside, and he prefers to use
his knowledge and privilege to make an impact rather than disengage
from the system. [00:13:41] Thinking back to all the conversations
Richard’s had about the sustain movement, he shares his favorite
conversation with Dominic Tarr, who left coding to pursue personal
joy. Karen emphasizes the need for collective action to address
systemic problems. [00:16:01] Find out where you can follow Richard
and his projects online. Links SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/)
SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/)
podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) SustainOSS
Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Open
Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
(https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Twitter
(https://twitter.com/richlitt?lang=en) Richard Littauer Website
(https://www.burntfen.com/2023-05-30/socials) Software Freedom
Conservancy (https://sfconservancy.org/) Open OSS
(https://openoss.sourceforge.net/) Dominic Tarr (YouTube)
(https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMSmy7qF24q4f_y6L86zNMA) Sustain
Podcast-Episode 56: Dominic Tarr on Coding What You Want, Living On
a Boat, and the Early Days of Node.js
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/guests/dominic) Credits Produced by
Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr
at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by
DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)
Special Guest: Richard Littauer.