Episode 212: Carlos Martinez-Ortiz & Shoaib Sufi on WoSSS (Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability)

Guests Carlos Martinez-Ortiz | Shoaib Sufi Panelist Richard
Littauer Show Notes In this episode, Richards welcomes his two
guests, Carlos Martinez, Scientific Community Manager at the
Netherlands eScience center, and Shoaib Sufi, Community Lead at the
Software Sustainability Institute. They both represent a vibrant
community dedicated to the long-term sustainability of research
software and open source projects in the sciences. Today, our
discussion navigates the “WoSSS” (Workshop on Sustainable Software
Sustainability) and its evolution, taking a deep dive into the
challenges and solutions surrounding software sustainability. They
explore the crossroads of open source and research software and the
importance of funding for such sustainable efforts. Additionally,
they reflect on the future of workshops, hinting at potential
refinements to address evolving community needs. This episode
emphasizes the need for knowledge exchange, networking, and
community building while contemplating future pathways in this
evolving field. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:25] The WoSSS
refers to efforts to look at the long-term sustainability of
software research and other sectors. It involves various
organizations and alliances interested in software sustainability.
[00:03:15] Shoaib discusses the relationship between open source
software and research software, highlighting that they share common
principles and methods, though they may not always be driven by the
same goals. [00:04:12] Shoaib provides clarification about the
funding of the Software Sustainability Institute, explaining that
it’s funded by multiple UK research and innovation funding
agencies. [00:05:00] Carlos explains that the Netherlands eScience
center is the national center for research software expertise in
the Netherlands, focusing on developing research software with a
strong preference for open source licensing. [00:06:32] Shoaib and
Carlos discuss the origins and evolution of the WoSSS, which
started as a knowledge exchange workshop and expanded to cover
various topics related to research software sustainability,
preservation, and infrastructure. [00:08:43] Richard inquires about
the types of community members who participate in WoSSS workshops.
Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to bring together funders,
leaders, middle managers, developers, and individuals interested in
research software sustainability to foster discussions. [00:10:19]
Carlos explains the concept of “sustained software sustainability”
as a pyramid with research software at the top, followed by the
need to sustain it and the creation of a research landscape that
supports long-term software sustainability efforts. [00:13:35]
Shoaib mentions that the workshops aim to benefit participants by
offering opportunities for them to contribute and discuss topics,
crating reports to recognize their contributions. He explains that
participants include individuals empowered by their universities to
share information within their institutions. [00:17:41] Richard
questions whether the participants who attend these workshops are
often empowered by their institutions to share the knowledge they
gain, and he also asks about the tools provided to help them
communicate with researchers. Carlos emphasizes the importance of
networking opportunities during the workshops, where participants
can connect with people in the field who share similar challenges
and goals. [00:19:12] Shoaib discusses the role of Research
Software Engineering (RSE) groups at universities, which often
perform functions similar to OSPOs in terms of supporting research
software development and training. He provides an example of a case
where a research group decided to use a restrictive open source
license to retain control of their IP for commercial purposes.
[00:22:54] Shoaib summarizes the key takeaways from the workshops,
including the importance of FAIR Principles for Research Software
and the need for ongoing software sustainability. [00:25:04] Shoaib
explains that there’s been a desire to merge WSBI and WoSSS but
that the future direction of WoSSS is being considered. Carlos
reflects on how evolving landscape of similar workshops and
initiatives has prompted the need for reflection on the future
direction of WoSSS. Shoaib emphasizes the need to determine the
purpose and audience of WoSSS in the future. [00:29:13] We learn
that WoSSS is currently in a period of reflection, and future
directions for it are being considered. [00:32:49] Shoaib shares
final thoughts and talks about the project around research software
quality, which is bringing various research infrastructures
together. He also mentions the hidden REF. Spotlight [00:34:30]
Richard’s spotlight is Ross Mounce, Director of Open Access
Programs at Arcadia. [00:35:04] Carlos’s spotlight is Hedy, a
programming language for teaching children how to get into
programming. [00:35:49] Shoaib’s spotlight is The People and
Projects Podcast, the TalkPython Podcast, and the Center for
Scientific Collaboration and Community Engagement (CSCCE). Links
SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/)
podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) SustainOSS
Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Open
Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
(https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Mastodon
(https://mastodon.social/@richlitt) Carlos Martinez Mastodon
(https://fosstodon.org/@neocarlitos) Carlos Martinez LinkedIn
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlosmartinezortiz/) Dr. Carlos
Martinez-Ortiz-Netherlands eScience center
(https://www.esciencecenter.nl/team/dr-carlos-martinez-ortiz/)
Shoaib Sufi Twitter (https://twitter.com/shoaibsufi) Shoaib Sufi
LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/shoaibsufi/) Shoaib
Sufi-Software Sustainability Institute
(https://www.software.ac.uk/about/staff/person/shoaib-sufi) Report
on the Workshop on Sustainable Software Sustainability 2021-Zenodo
(https://zenodo.org/records/7951155) WoSSS (https://wosss.org/)
Society of Research Software Engineering
(https://society-rse.org/community/rse-groups/) Introducing the
FAIR Principles for research software-scientific data
(https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-022-01710-x) FAIR
Principles for Research Software (FAIR4RS Principles)-Zenodo
(https://zenodo.org/records/6623556#.YqCJTJNBwlw) RDA & ReSA:
Policies in Research Organisations for Research Software (PRO4RS)
(https://www.rd-alliance.org/groups/policies-research-organisations-research-software-pro4rs)
ADORE.software (https://adore.software/) the hidden REF
(https://hidden-ref.org/) Ross Mounce LinkedIn
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmounce/?originalSubdomain=uk) Hedy
(https://www.hedycode.com/) The People and Projects Podcast
(https://peopleandprojectspodcast.com/index.php/en/) TalkPython
Podcast (https://talkpython.fm/) CSCCE: Center for Scientific
Collaboration and Community Engagement (https://www.cscce.org/)
Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/)
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
(https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guests:
Carlos Martinez-Ortiz and Shoaib Sufi.