Episode 215: Joe Castle on Code.gov

Guest Joseph Castle Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this
episode, Richard welcomes Joe Castle, Executive Advisor for
Strategic Partnerships and Technology at SAS, and he was previously
featured on an episode in the FOSSY 2023 series podcasts. Today,
they engage in conversations about various aspects of open source
and Code.gov, exploring its history, budget changes, and
challenges. Joe provides an overview of SAS Institute, its role in
analytics and AI software, and its presence in the federal
government. The discussion dives into the federal source code
policy, its key aspects, and the allocation of the federal IT
budget. They explore the idea of making government source code open
source and the challenges associated with it, and there’s a
discussion on the importance of supporting open source projects and
various initiatives in different countries and labs. Press download
now to hear more! [00:01:23] Joe gives us an overview of SAS
Institute, its focus on analytics and AI software, and its presence
in the federal government and other sectors. [00:02:08] Joe talks
about his background and how he became an advocate for open source
software, especially Python, in both personal and professional
context. He discusses his role at SAS, which involves promoting
open source integration and education. [00:06:41] We learn about
the history of Code.gov, which was born out of the U.S. federal
source policy in 2016, and then Joe explains the three key aspects
of the federal source code policy: creating a source code policy,
updating acquisition language, and publishing an inventory of
source code, including at least 20% as open source software.
[00:10:03] Richard mentions the size of the federal IT budget and
asks about the allocation of the remaining 93% of the budget. Joe
explains that the 93% of the budget goes towards labor,
infrastructure, commodity IT, and various IT-related expenses.
[00:14:31] Richard inquires about the availability of a manifest
listing all open source packages on Code.gov, and Joseph explains
that Code.gov provides agency inventories of their source code, and
each agency can decide what to include or exclude from the list
based on various factors, including security. [00:16:31] Joe
discusses his involvement with Code.gov, which started when he
worked at the White House and volunteered to help implement the
federal source code policy. [00:19:21] Richard asks about the
budget for Code.gov and its changes over the years and Joe
clarifies that Code.gov had a budget of about a million dollars a
year for platform, staff, and related expenses. [00:20:09] Joe
discusses the rise and fall of Code.gov, including policy changes
and a decrease in funding, resulting in downsizing and limited
maintenance of the website and code. [00:22:30] The role of the CIO
at OMB is brought up and Joe explains that the focus of the federal
CIO can shift with changing priorities and administrations.
[00:23:23] Richard asks about how to reinvigorate Code.gov and
whether it’s possible to influence the CIO to prioritize it. Joe
mentions an interaction with a Senate committee staffer and
suggests that getting attention from key decision-makers is
essential for pushing such initiatives. [00:27:34] Richard wonders
if there are any internal efforts to track multiple contracts for
the same vendors and improve code management. Joe tells us he’s not
aware of specific internal efforts but mentions the existence of
similar projects in other places. [00:31:47] Joe notes that there
weren’t discussions about financially supporting open source
projects at Code.gov, and the focus was on making the code
available to the public and raising awareness of its existence.
[00:32:52] Richard discusses the importance of supporting open
source projects used by the government and mentions governmental
efforts like the Sovereign Tech Fund in Germany. Joe talks about
how certain agencies and labs, such as NASA and the Department of
Energy, fund open source projects. He also mentions that he once
considered making Code.gov an open source project separate from the
government but didn’t proceed with the idea, and he mentions the
GitHub Government website. [00:37:06] Find out where you can follow
Joe on the internet. Quotes [00:07:06] “Code.gov was born out of
the U.S. Federal source code policy.” [00:18:37] “It’s basically
holistically the OSPO for the U.S. federal government.” Spotlight
[00:37:45] Richard’s spotlight is a book series he read called,
Bloody Jack by L.A. Meyer. [00:38:27] Joe’s spotlight is some great
books he read: The Work by Wes Moore, Still Standing by Larry
Hogan, and Bridgebuilders by William D. Eggers and Donald F. Kettl.
Links SustainOSS (https://sustainoss.org/) SustainOSS Twitter
(https://twitter.com/SustainOSS?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor)
SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/)
podcast@sustainoss.org (mailto:podcast@sustainoss.org) SustainOSS
Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Open
Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute)
(https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Mastodon
(https://mastodon.social/@richlitt) Joseph Castle Twitter
(https://twitter.com/jrcastle_vt) Joseph Castle, PhD LinkedIn
(https://www.linkedin.com/in/jrcastle/) Sustain Podcast-Episode
197: FOSSY 2023 with Joe Castle
(https://podcast.sustainoss.org/197) SAS
(https://www.sas.com/en_us/home.html) Code.gov (https://code.gov/)
Data.gov (https://data.gov/) Defense Finance and Accounting Service
(https://www.dfas.mil/) U.S. Department of Defense
(https://www.defense.gov/) GitHub and Government
(https://government.github.com/) Bloody Jack by L.A. Meyer
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Jack_(novel)) The Work:
Searching for a Life That Matters by Wes Moore
(https://www.amazon.com/Work-Searching-Life-That-Matters/dp/081298384X)
[Still Standing: Surviving Cancer, Riots, a Global Pandemic, and
the Toxic Politics That Divide America by Larry
Hogan](https://www.amazon.com/Still-Standing-Surviving-Pandemic-Politics/dp/B08CFVK3VK/ref=sr11?)
Bridgebuilders: How Government Can Transcend Boundaries to Solve
Big Problems by William D. Eggers and Donald F. Kettl
(https://www.amazon.com/Bridgebuilders-Government-Transcend-Boundaries-Problems-ebook/dp/B0B5Y8XZKR)
Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/)
Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound
(https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr
Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest:
Joseph Castle, PhD.