How MSNBC’s Joyce Vance Stays Optimistic About Democracy

The federal shutdown continues, as President Trump continues to
push the limits of executive power.


On Today's Show:
Joyce Vance, a legal analyst for MSNBC and
former U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Alabama,
University of Alabama School of Law professor, and author of the
Civil Discourse Substack, and of the new book, Giving Up Is
Unforgivable:  A Manual for Keeping a
Democracy (Dutton, 2025), talks about the rule of law
and offers legal and historical context for the current moment in
American history as she calls for citizens to uphold the
Constitution.