#594: Cal Newport and Tim Ferriss Revisit "The 4-Hour Workweek" (Plus: The Allure and The Void of Remote Work, Unsustainable Behaviors, Burning Out, The Cult of Productivity, and More)

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Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, where it
is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out the
routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life.


In this episode, past podcast guest Cal
Newport interviews me for an article he ended up
writing for The New Yorker titled “Revisiting ‘The
4-Hour Workweek’: How Tim Ferriss’s 2007 manifesto anticipated
our current moment of professional upheaval.”


Who is Cal? Cal Newport (calnewport.com) is an associate
professor of computer science at Georgetown University who
previously earned his PhD from MIT. His scholarship focuses on
the theory of distributed systems, while his general-audience
writing explores intersections of culture and technology.


Cal is the author of seven books, including, most
recently, Deep Work, Digital Minimalism, and A
World Without Email. He is also a contributing writer
for The New Yorker and the host of the Deep
Questions podcast.


You can find my interview with Cal at tim.blog/calnewport,
and you can find the 2007 talk at SXSW that launched everything
at tim.blog/sxsw.


Please enjoy!


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*


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*


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*


Some of the first cracks in my post-Princeton life that hinted at
the unsustainable nature of Silicon Valley workaholic culture and
led me toward a realization that The 4-Hour Workweek might be a
book worth writing. [07:36]


The fatal flaw in my first startup that ensured I wouldn’t be
able to easily sell it. [17:22]


A snapshot of Silicon Valley in the early 2000s: a prototyping
and testing ground for new technologies and a hotbed of hustling.
[22:16]


Cal says I mentioned email four times in the opening six minutes
of my first South by Southwest talk. In retrospect, what bigger
problems did this portend, and how was my approach somewhat
transgressive, considering the audience? [26:44]


Defying the cult of productivity to be more effective than
efficient with the 80/20 principle (aka Pareto’s law). [39:43]


On slow productivity and playing your own game while
understanding the rules by which other people play theirs.[44:33]


How the launch of this podcast was, in a sense, a reexamination
of what my own game was after working on The 4-Hour Chef turned
out to be more a labor of labor than love. [47:57]


My mindset going into that first South by Southwest speech in
2007 and how I tried to make the pain points of efficiency
relatable rather than presenting them as judgment against my
go-getting, startup-hustling audience. [50:41]


If prioritizing your own self-care inconveniences other people
from time to time, so be it. (To the people pleasers in the
audience, please reread that last sentence to yourself a little
louder until it sticks.) [53:50]


After the South by Southwest speech, what was the general
reception like? What points seemed to resonate most with people?
[56:44]


How a mutual friend put concepts presented in The 4-Hour Workweek
to work and changed his own life, how some of those concepts that
were radical when the book was published 15 years ago are now
considered commonplace, and which concepts I hope continue to
gain momentum. [1:00:56]


How the COVID-19 pandemic suddenly made the work-disrupting
scenarios posited in The 4-Hour Workweek viable alternatives to
the status quo rather than intangible, impossible thought
experiments, though some challenges remain. [1:06:40]


Pop culture references to The 4-Hour Workweek and common
misinterpretations of its primary tenets that come from casual
skimming and second-hand sources. [1:10:38]


Digging deeper, why do so many readers who pick up the
bestselling productivity and time management books seem to miss
the points they’re really trying to make? [1:15:57]


Cal’s optimistic parting thoughts that society is finally
catching up with what The 4-Hour Workweek was trying to convey.
[1:20:58]


*


For show notes and past guests
on The Tim Ferriss Show,
please
visit tim.blog/podcast.


For deals from sponsors of The Tim
Ferriss Show, please visit
tim.blog/podcast-sponsors.


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at tim.blog/friday.


For transcripts of episodes, go
to tim.blog/transcripts.


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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss
Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh
Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin
Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew
McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth
Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah
Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine
Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary
Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael
Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold
Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria
Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de
Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly
Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard
Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael
Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan
Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit
Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim
Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval
Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth
Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard
Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid
Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick
Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many
more.


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