#641: Roland Griffiths, PhD — Life’s Ultimate Glide Path, An Unexpected Stage IV Diagnosis, Facing Death, How Meditation and Psychedelics Can Help, and The Art of Living a Life of Gratitude

Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show. This is a
very meaningful episode to me. It is probably the most
significant interview that I've recorded in the last year, and it
is with one of my favorite people and one of my favorite
scientists in the world: Roland Griffiths, PhD.


Roland has recently been diagnosed with what is very likely
terminal stage-four cancer. If you've ever found yourself
inspired by someone who walks the walk, this episode is worth
listening to. In facing mortality and potentially facing death,
what Roland has done and is doing, the perspective he is finding,
and the tools he is using, are nothing short of awe inspiring.
His example is beyond words, and I wanted to share that with all
of you. 


I hope you find it as deeply enriching and valuable as I did. It
is a very tender conversation at points, a very funny
conversation, and in many ways, a very profound conversation.


To learn more about Roland’s very ambitious project to establish
a world-class psychedelic research program—in perpetuity—to
advance human flourishing and well-being, please visit
GriffithsFund.org.


Currently, Roland has received pledges totaling about $14M. This
means that he is $6M short of the $20M target, sufficient to
support the full research program. To donate, please visit
GriffithsFund.org and click “Donate.”


For more information about establishing a major gift, please
contact Mike DeVito, the Senior Associate Director of Development
at mdevito1@jhmi.edu or call him at (443) 278-3174. Donors who
contribute $1000 or more and who do not choose to remain
anonymous will be acknowledged on the website.


Here is Roland’s bio:


Roland Griffiths, PhD, is a Professor in the
Departments of Psychiatry and Neurosciences at Johns Hopkins
University, and founding Director of the Johns Hopkins Center on
Psychedelic and Consciousness Research. His principal research
focus in both clinical and preclinical laboratories has been on
the behavioral and subjective effects of mood-altering drugs.


His research has been largely supported by grants from the
National Institute on Health, and he is author of over 400
scientific publications. He has been a consultant to the National
Institutes of Health, the World Health Organization, and numerous
pharmaceutical companies. Roland has conducted extensive research
with sedative-hypnotics, caffeine, and novel mood-altering drugs.


In 1994 Roland started a regular meditation practice that made
him curious about certain altered states of consciousness that
prompted him in 1999 to initiate the first study in decades to
rigorously evaluate the effects of a high dose of a classic
psychedelic drug (psilocybin) in healthy psychedelic-naïve
participants. Subsequent studies with psilocybin have been
conducted in healthy volunteers, in beginning and long-term
meditators, and in religious leaders. Therapeutic studies with
psilocybin include treatment of psychological distress in cancer
patients, cigarette smoking addiction, major depression, anorexia
nervosa, and Alzheimer’s Disease. Other studies have examined
non-psychedelic drugs that produce altered states of
consciousness having similarities to psilocybin. Brain imaging
studies have examined pharmacological and neural mechanisms of
action of psilocybin.


Roland’s research group has also conducted a series of survey
studies characterizing various naturally-occurring and
psychedelic-occasioned transformative experiences including:
mystical-type experiences, psychologically challenging
experiences, near-death experiences (NDEs), Entity and
God-encounter experiences, and experiences to which reduced
anxiety, depression, and substance use disorders are attributed.


Please enjoy!


*


[05:15] Roland’s earliest personal experience with psychedelics.


[11:07] Meditation and interest in altered states of
consciousness.


[18:32] What is phenomenology?


[21:44] Why early attempts at meditation failed, and what made
Roland revisit the practice.


[29:13] Roland’s work with sedative-hypnotics in the late ’70s.


[33:02] Connoisseurs of puff topography.


[36:36] When Roland realized the voice in his head wasn’t his.


[40:26] From meditation to scientific exploration of
psychedelics.


[50:29] Entheogens vs. psychedelics.


[54:57] Roland’s initial reluctance to experiment with
psychedelics.


[59:36] Sasha Shulgin, PiHKAL, and TiHKAL.


[1:02:12] Bill Richards.


[1:03:30] Challenges of the psychedelic trial process.


[1:12:41] The results of Roland’s first major psychedelic study.


[1:16:46] Pre-existing literature on mystical experiences.


[1:18:39] Roland’s more recent psychedelic experiences.


[1:27:23] Why isn’t Roland devastated by his terminal diagnosis?


[1:42:47] Ego dissolution and anxiety reduction.


[1:49:44] The real purpose of this conversation.


[1:54:50] A rundown of Roland’s diagnosis and how he’s coping
with it.


[2:03:44] “Every day is Thanksgiving.”


[2:05:39] Gratitude meditation, liver embolization, and other
mortality navigations.


[2:11:36] Satcitananda.


[2:13:18] Eliciting 5-MeO “placebo” experiences without
psychedelics.


[2:29:14] How does Roland relate to death?


[2:34:59] How loved ones can be supportive of someone coping with
a terminal diagnosis.


[2:38:30] Belief changes associated with psychedelic use.


[2:40:45] Thoughts from the crossroads of the quantum, the
paranormal, and the psychedelic.


[2:52:30] Roland’s endowed professorship and its foreseeable
areas of research.


[3:09:01] David Yaden.


[3:18:23] Is there a contingency if Usona ceases to exist?


[3:19:42] Roland’s current prognosis.


[3:23:38] Roland’s parting thoughts of gratitude and the road
ahead.





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