Ted Nordhaus Deconstructs Degrowth

I am joined by returning guest and co-founder of The Breakthrough
Institute, Ted Nordhaus, to discuss degrowth as a proposed
solution to climate change and other environmental issues.


Nordhaus has written forcefully against the idea of degrowth,
which posits that growth in human populations and consumption
levels will inevitably bring us to the brink of what this planet
can sustain. The only way to avert catastrophe is to therefore
reduce human populations and minimize consumption.


Nordhaus’s objections are epistemological as well as pragmatic.
While degrowth risks stalling innovation and adaptation in the
face of climate change, it is unclear that the proclaimed limits
to human consumption (at the root of degrowth thought) are
actually knowable or would even be met in the normal course of
human development. Nordhaus points out the difficulty of defining
the line between necessity and luxury, and argues that there is
no actual science or evidence behind claims that we are
approaching or have passed “planetary boundaries.”


Nordhaus emphasizes that he cares about the environment and other
species, but that there are “non-apocalyptic reasons to protect
nature.” As for what society should do to address the climate
crisis and other environmental issues, Nordhaus offers a
decision-making framework that acknowledges the vast
uncertainties of any future scenario: Do more of the stuff that
brings us in a direction we want to go, and less of the stuff
that doesn’t.


To Nordhaus, foretelling disaster based on what he says are
unscientific limits to growth is “an authoritarian claim” that at
best leads to regressive policies and at worst creates
self-fulfilling prophecies.


We go on to discuss the common use of WW2 as a metaphor for the
scale of climate action needed, and contrast it with a Cold War
metaphor that yields more technological optimism. Finally, we
touch upon a concept near and dear to this podcast: decoupling.


Read Ted Nordhaus's commentary on Vaclav Smil here:
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/must-growth-doom-the-planet