42: How Does A Psychologist Get Heuermann To Talk?

In a recent episode of the "Hidden Killers" podcast, host Tony
Brueski engaged in a revealing conversation with Clinical and
Forensic Psychologist & licensed private investigator, Joni
Johnston, as they grappled with the psychological complexities
behind Rex Heuerman. Heuerman is the man now imprisoned amid
harrowing allegations.
 
Brueski began by probing into the mind of such individuals: "As
we dive into Rex Heuerman, from a psychological standpoint, how
would someone approach the conversation about his mental state
now that he's behind bars?"
 
Johnston's insight into this realm was both enlightening and
compelling. She began, "It's hard to imagine a scenario when he
would agree to a forensic psychological evaluation." But in the
event that he did, Johnston explained, the primary objective is
to build rapport. "Unless you can establish some kind of rapport
with that person, you are going to get nowhere with them," she
said.
 
She elaborated on her methods, "One of the things I do sometimes
in evaluating defendants facing very difficult trials is I try to
empathize with their feelings about where they are." Whether
innocent or guilty, many defendants often feel trapped,
victimized, and overwhelmed by their current circumstances.
Approaching from a place of empathy, Johnston conveyed, is key to
gaining their trust.
 
The motive of the psychologist's presence also plays a pivotal
role. She stated, "Their reception of me is going to be different
if I am coming in as a court-appointed evaluator, or if I'm
coming in on behalf of the defense or the prosecutor." Johnston
underscored the importance of transparency and ensuring the
person understands their rights, including the right not to
participate.
 
Delving deeper, she described her tactic to approach such
conversations gradually. "I start really from a subject that's
very far away from the current situation... starting with
non-threatening questions, talking about their childhood, where
they grew up, earliest memories... and I gradually work my way up
to the current situation."
 
However, Johnston highlighted that interviews form just a part of
a multifaceted process. She brings in psychological testing as a
potent tool. "It gives me a way to compare this particular person
to thousands of other people who've taken some of the same
instruments." As Johnston shared, these assessments are designed
to detect inconsistencies, offering insights into whether someone
is feigning mental illness or denying its presence.
 
She added, "One of the things that really differentiates a
forensic evaluation from a clinical evaluation is that person may
have a very understandable reason to lie." To counteract
potential deceit, Johnston stressed the importance of consulting
diverse sources, from custody officers to witness statements, and
even to the person's previous acquaintances. This expansive
approach provides a rounded view, helping identify patterns in
behavior, whether indicating mental health issues or
stability.
 
Johnston concluded, "It really is a pretty comprehensive
evaluation that takes that person where they are now. Depending
upon what the referral question is, I'm gonna use all those
strategies to put together and form some kind of opinion about
this person."
 
The insightful exchange between Brueski and Johnston offers a
glimpse into the intricacies of forensic psychology. As the case
of Rex Heuerman unfolds, the importance of understanding the mind
behind the man becomes ever more crucial, not just for the case
but for the broader comprehension of the human psyche.
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