Ep. 197 ‘Are cakes speech?’ with Alliance Defending Freedom’s Kristen Waggoner

President, CEO, and general counsel of the Alliance Defending
Freedom, Kristen Waggoner, joins us for a discussion on freedom
of speech and religious liberty. ADF has played various roles in
74 U.S. Supreme Court victories and since 2011, has won cases
before the Court 15 times. 


According to its website, “ADF is the world's largest legal
organization committed to protecting religious freedom, free
speech, marriage and family, parental rights, and the sanctity of
life.”


ADF has litigated many high profile and controversial free speech
cases, including the recent Supreme Court case involving a web
designer who didn’t want to be compelled to design websites for
same-sex weddings. Before that, ADF litigated the 2018
Masterpiece Cakeshop case, which involved a cake designer who
similarly didn’t want to provide his services for same-sex
weddings on religious grounds.


After the initial conversation was recorded, The Washington Post
and The New Yorker released articles critical of ADF. Nico and
Kristen recorded an additional, brief conversation to address
these articles. That is included at the end of the podcast. 


Transcript:


https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/so-speak-podcast-transcript-are-cakes-speech-alliance-defending-freedoms-kristen


Timestamps:


0:43 - Introduction


6:16 - Kristen’s path to ADF


12:54 - ADF’s international team


14:20 - Pavi Rasanen controversy


19:24 - What does it mean to be a ministry?/blasphemy laws


22:56 - ADF’s Supreme Court cases 


26:58 - 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis 


28:56 - Public accommodation laws/Masterpiece Cakeshop


40:40 - Pre-enforcement challenges


42:50 - Facial challenges


47:32 - Test cases or fake cases?


49:44 - Yale incident


57:50 - Other campus shoutdowns


1:00:08 - L.M. v. Town of Middleborough 


1:14:27 - Kristen addresses WaPo article


1:15:38 - Kristen addresses New Yorker article 


 


Related Articles/Podcasts:




“Inside the tactics that won Christian vendors the right to
reject gay weddings,” Jon Swaine and Beth Reinhard (The
Washington Post)




“Are ADF’s Cases ‘Made Up’?” Lathan Watts (ADF, response to
The Washington Post)




“The next targets for the group that overturned Roe,” David
D. Kirkpatrick (The New Yorker)




FIRE’s response to Kristen Waggoner Yale incident 




FIRE’s response to Anne Coulter Cornell incident




FIRE’s response to Ilya Shapiro Georgetown incident




FIRE’s response to Ian Haworth UAlbany incident




“The Imperfect Plaintiffs” (“More Perfect” podcast with Julia
Longoria)




 


Cases Discussed:




Dubash v. City of Houston (Animal rights activists lawsuit,
2023)




Paivi Rasanen (Finnish lawmaker charged with incitement
against gay people)




303 Creative LLC v. Elenis (2022) 




Masterpiece Cakeshop, Ltd. v. Colorado Civil Rights
Commission (2017) 




Uzuebgunam v. Preczewski (2021) 




West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
(1943) 




Wooley v. Maynard (1997) 




Plessy v. Ferguson (1986) 




L.M. v. Town of Middleborough (2023)




 


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