The Difference Between Fraud and Scams with Uri Rivner

Moving money has never been easier. We no longer need to go into
a bank, fill out a slip, and hand it to a teller to receive our
money. We can now transfer money instantly. Scammers are taking
advantage of unfamiliar technology to either hack in and take our
money or to deceive you into sending it to them yourself.
Deciding if the bank is responsible for the loss is becoming more
and more of a conversation.


Today’s guest is Uri Rivner. Uri has been fighting financial
crime for 20 years working closely with the world’s largest banks
on developing strategies against online fraud and scams. Prior to
founding Refine Intelligence, Uri was co-founder and Chief Cyber
Officer at BioCatch, the global leader in behavioral biometrics
for fraud detection. Earlier, Uri served as Head of New
Technologies at RSA. Innovations Uri spearheaded, such as
risk-based authentication, are now saving the industry billions
of dollars each year in fraud. 
Show Notes:

[1:19] - Uri shares his background in fighting fraud for the
last 20 years.

[3:43] - The companies Uri has worked for, founded, and
co-founded work with banks and financial institutions to help
protect against fraud.

[5:10] - In a fraud situation, people are tricked through
social engineering to hand over their information, but the
fraudsters move the money.

[6:41] - Fraud is unauthorized. A scam is an authorized
payment.

[7:39] - Uri describes some of the history of frauds changing
over to scams.

[10:42] - Although there’s a difference between fraud and
scams, the lines can be blurred.

[14:10] - Remote access malware became a real problem.

[17:13] - What are the differences between how the banks
handle fraud and how they handle scams?

[19:08] - Banks can look at data and account action to
determine if a criminal moved money or if the victim did it for
them.

[20:36] - It is much more difficult for banks to detect
scams.

[23:29] - If banks see something unusual, they typically
reach out to the customer to hear the reason. This doesn’t always
work due to social engineering.

[28:13] - Engaging customers is tricky because people don’t
typically answer the phone or criminals are coaching the victim
through what to say.

[30:17] - This year, in the UK, banks will be held liable.

[33:17] - By design, banks are supposed to know their
customers. But that’s not the case these days.

[36:48] - For banks, it is harder now to connect with
customers to find out exactly what happened.

[39:31] - Uri explains what happened with the US introduction
of instant money transfers through Zelle.

[41:50] - There is an increase in Zelle scams, but banks were
able to offer some support and reimbursement.

[43:59] - Scams are the most effective tools criminals have.

[46:45] - Uri describes what we can look out for and how to
best prepare ourselves to prevent scams.

[49:19] - When money is moved from a bank account, it is the
end of a chain of events that led to it. What is the
responsibility of the platform that transferred it?



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