Declarative Visualization with DENEB | Daten-WG Podcast with Daniel Marsh-Patrick

Daniel Marsh-Patrick joins from down under to talk about Deneb,
the certified Power BI custom visual that turns Vega and
Vega-Lite into a sandbox for almost any visual you can imagine.





We dig into declarative vs. imperative visualization, why Deneb
is a side project he has been carrying for five years, what PBIR
and the new JSON report format mean for visual developers, why
Vega is unusually LLM-friendly, and where Deneb really shines:
the engineering, environmental, and "non-business" charts that
Power BI core visuals were never built for.





Guest: Daniel Marsh-Patrick
https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-m-p/


Host: Artur König https://www.linkedin.com/in/datakoenigartur/





Daten-WG 2026 Conference, October 14-16:
https://www.daten-wg.com/daten-wg-2026





00:00 – Intro: An international expert episode with Daniel from
down under


02:55 – Daniel's path into Power BI visuals: Vega and Vega-Lite
explained


05:13 – BI developer learning to be a web developer: where Power
BI hits a wall


07:02 – Custom visuals, certification, and why proprietary
visuals are tricky


09:09 – Why Deneb exists: certified custom visuals without the
AppSource listing


10:49 – A side project for the community: five years of Deneb


12:59 – Declarative vs. imperative: why JSON beats coding every
pixel


14:14 – PBIR and the new JSON report format for Power BI


17:32 – The big performance refactor and documenting Deneb's
property structure


20:47 – Self-confessed non-coders build the most mind-blowing
Deneb visuals


23:16 – Shoutouts to Kerry Kolosko and Ben Ferry


25:41 – Performance, interactivity, and the slow grind of
community-driven roadmaps


26:44 – Vega and AI: why LLMs love declarative visuals


28:30 – Vega is everywhere: Looker Studio, Databricks, Microsoft
research


30:30 – Why Deneb cannot have Copilot inside (and why it is not
really a problem)


33:00 – Portability: copy a Vega spec from Databricks straight
into Power BI


35:00 – When to reach for Deneb instead of stacking 28 measures
for an IBCS bar chart


36:40 – Beyond sales and finance: engineering and environmental
visuals


40:30 – Can I really maintain this? The third-party visual
trade-off


42:00 – The world is broader than your next sales report


42:50 – Outro: Power BI & Fabric Summit and a shoutout to
Reza Rad


44:00 – Difinity Conference and the open source spirit


45:11 – New Deneb release on the way with major performance
improvements








Links and sources





Deneb documentation: https://deneb-viz.github.io/


Deneb on AppSource:
https://marketplace.microsoft.com/en-us/product/power-bi-visuals/coacervolimited1596856650797.deneb


Vega: https://vega.github.io/vega/


Vega-Lite: https://vega.github.io/vega-lite/


Vega online editor: https://vega.github.io/editor/


Kerry Kolosko: https://kerrykolosko.com/


Ben Ferry – Power BI Ferry Tales:
https://www.youtube.com/@powerbiferrytales


Microsoft Research – Data Formulator:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/data-formulator/


IBCS: https://www.ibcs.com/


Power BI & Fabric Summit: https://globalpowerbisummit.com/