What happens when three experienced investigators from opposite
sides of the world sit down to examine how police respond to an
active shooter?
In this special crossover between Stop the
Killing and Watching Two Detectives,
former FBI Special Agent Katherine Schweit joins
retired New South Wales detectives Peter Hogan and Scott
Rogan for an expert examination of the lessons that have
reshaped mass-shooting prevention, preparation and police
response.
Katherine was working on national security and counterterrorism
cases when the murder of 20 children and six educators at Sandy
Hook Elementary School changed the direction of her career.
Following the shooting, she was appointed to the White House team
tasked with developing a coordinated national response to mass
shootings and became the architect of the FBI’s Active Shooter
Program.
In Part One, Katherine explains how the devastating events at
Sandy Hook helped accelerate a fundamental change in policing:
moving away from the traditional strategy of “contain,
negotiate and wait” towards the immediate deployment of
officers to confront and stop an active threat.
Peter and Scott reveal how those lessons travelled across the
world and influenced Australian policing. They discuss the
introduction of New South Wales Police’s Active Armed
Offender training, the impact of the 2014 Lindt Café
siege and the confronting reality of preparing ordinary frontline
officers to run towards attackers armed with military-style
weapons.
Together, they explore:
Why active-shooter incidents can be over within minutes
The extraordinary risks faced by the first officers entering
the scene
Why an active shooter and a mass shooting are not always the
same thing
Why workplaces—not schools—account for many active-shooter
attacks in the United States
The challenges of negotiating with attackers driven by
extremist or ideological motives
Why warning signs must be recognised and reported before
violence begins
How information shared by one student helped prevent a
planned school shooting
Why measuring the attacks that never happened is so important
Katherine also shares the remarkable story of the message that
reminded her why Stop the Killing must continue:
a school vice principal who credited the podcast with helping her
team recognise the warning signs and prevent a planned attack.
This conversation lays the groundwork for the next part of the
series, when Katherine, Peter and Scott turn their attention to
the December 14, 2025 Bondi Beach terrorist
attack, examining the actions of the attackers,
civilians and responding officers through their combined FBI and
Australian policing experience. The attack targeted a Hanukkah
celebration and killed 15 people.
This is not simply a conversation about what happened. It is a
conversation about what has been learned, what has changed—and
what still needs to change to stop the next attack.
Listen now to Part One of this special multi-part
crossover.
Stop the Killing on Apple
Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489
Watching Two Detectives on Apple
Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/watching-two-detectives/id1740792484
Watching Two Detectives
Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/wtd
Stop the Killing Patreon:GUNS, SUICIDE AND THE WOMEN WHO
TALK TO THE DEAD — PART TWO
In Part Two of this special crossover between Stop the
Killing and Watching Two Detectives,
former FBI Special Agent Katherine Schweit
continues her conversation with retired New South Wales
detectives Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan.
Before the team turns its attention to the Bondi Beach killings,
they take a deeper look at the realities that sit behind
conversations about firearms, mass violence and public safety.
Katherine explains why she wrote Stop the Killing: A Simple Guide
to the Second Amendment and why productive conversations about
guns in the United States have become so difficult. With hundreds
of millions of firearms already in circulation, she argues that
prevention has to begin with the laws, risks and realities that
currently exist—not the world people wish existed.
The conversation also examines one of the most overlooked parts
of America’s firearms crisis: suicide. Katherine explains that
the majority of firearm deaths in the United States are
self-inflicted, raising difficult questions about access to
weapons during moments of crisis and how firearms can turn a
temporary period of distress into an irreversible outcome.
Peter, Scott and Katherine discuss:
Why active-shooter attacks and other forms of mass violence
are not directly comparable
How the weapon used can dramatically change the number of
casualties
The difference between bolt-action, semi-automatic and
automatic firearms
Why Australia’s firearms restrictions mattered during the
Bondi Beach attack
How the elevated firing position at Bondi could have produced
an even greater loss of life if different weapons had been
available
What the 2017 Las Vegas mass shooting demonstrates about
firing speed, distance and crowd density
Why statistics must be properly explained rather than used to
support a predetermined argument
The conversation then moves from mass-shooting prevention to
another extraordinary investigation from Katherine’s career.
Katherine introduces her book Women Who Talk to the Dead, which
follows Detroit detective Shannon Jones and FBI
forensic specialist Leslie Larsen as they
uncover a connection between missing-person investigations and
unidentified murder victims buried in paupers’ graves.
What begins with one detective searching through decades-old
paper files develops into the largest exhumation of murder
victims ever undertaken by the FBI.
Katherine reveals how a team of female detectives, prosecutors,
forensic anthropologists and investigators volunteered their
expertise and time to recover remains, obtain DNA and finally
return names to people who had been unidentified for decades.
Peter also reflects on his own experience working alongside a
forensic anthropologist during the painstaking exhumation of a
murder victim—and why a line in a news report stating that
investigators “exhumed the body and obtained DNA” can never
capture the time, care and expertise that work truly requires.
This episode is about the human realities hidden behind the
statistics: the people lost to firearms, the investigators who
carry the responsibility of finding answers and the extraordinary
work required to give unidentified victims their names back.
And after two episodes of expert discussion, the stage is now
set.
In Part Three, Katherine Schweit, Peter Hogan
and Scott Rogan turn their combined FBI and New South Wales
policing experience towards the Bondi Beach killings and examine
the events of that tragic day.
Stop the Killing on Apple
Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489
Watching Two Detectives on Apple
Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/watching-two-detectives/id1740792484
Watching Two Detectives
Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/wtd
Stop the Killing
Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/stopthekilling
Listening on the Stop the Killing feed? Head
over to Watching Two Detectives, subscribe and
discover the four seasons waiting for you.
Listening on Watching Two Detectives? Search for
Stop the Killing, subscribe and explore more
than 300 episodes examining mass shootings, prevention, survival
and the people working to create meaningful change.
Please follow both shows and leave a five-star review wherever
you listen. Your support helps us continue producing these
independent, expert-led conversations.
Join us next week for Part Three: the Bondi Beach
killings through the expert lenses of Katherine Schweit, Peter
Hogan and Scott Rogan.
This episode contains discussions of mass shootings, suicide,
firearms, murder victims and human remains. Listener discretion
is advised.
This is a Sarah Ferris Media
on the Killer Podcasts Network
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KLOOGHLESS - THE LONG CON
GUILTY GREENIE
THE BRAVERY ACADEMY
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