#92 Joscha Bach: “The Nature Of Reality is Even Weirder Than We Previously Thought”

Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist, AI researcher, and
philosopher of mind whose work has shaped how we think about
synthetic consciousness and the architecture of thought itself.


He developed the MicroPsi cognitive architecture, has held
research roles at MIT and Harvard, and just co-founded the
California Institute of Machine Consciousness with Karl Friston —
a lab dedicated to building minds that know they exist.


Expect to learn how emotions are compressed value functions for
simulated agents, how brains create recursive world models to
predict and control experience, why the self might just be a
stabilizing hallucination, how synthetic minds could surpass
biological ones, why Joscha sees spirits as information
processes, and how consciousness might emerge anywhere complex
systems learn to model themselves.


We also explore the implications of Michael Levin’s work, the
ethics of synthetic selves, why nature is already computational,
and what’s truly at the bedrock of reality. This conversation is
strange, deep, and unforgettable.


Timestamps:00:00 Journey into Consciousness and AI


02:59 The Intersection of Neuroscience and AI


05:52 Understanding Consciousness: A Second Order Perception


08:53 Consciousness: An Evolved Property or Fundamental Reality?


12:03 The Concept of Spirit in Consciousness


14:56 Exploring Consciousness in Non-Brain Systems


18:00 The Nature of Consciousness in Organisms


21:12 The Role of Software in Consciousness


23:52 The Potential of Xenobots and Consciousness


37:06 Emergence of Artificial Life


40:12 The Nature of Consciousness


43:56 Comparing Consciousness Across Species


46:58 The Role of Social Structures in Consciousness


54:39 Biological Ingredients for Consciousness


01:10:55 Building Conscious AI


01:16:38 Exploring Ethical Constraints in AI Experiments


01:18:11 The Nature of Consciousness in AI


01:22:18 Comparing Consciousness: LLMs vs. Xenobots


01:24:19 The Binary Nature of Consciousness


01:27:01 Agency vs. Consciousness: A Complex Relationship


01:32:34 The Horrors of Conscious Existence


01:37:41 Concerns About AI and Society


01:40:14 The Role of AI in Society's Future


01:46:57 The Urgency of AI Development


01:51:03 The Future of AI and Society...


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