089 — The Myth of Left and Right, a Conversation with Prof. Hyrum Lewis

Is the political left and right position changing regularly? For
many years now, I have been getting more and more uneasy when
pundits and journalists use the “left/right” dichotomy. In my
lifetime, I have observed numerous political topics that were
once at the core of “left” politics that suddenly are named
“right” and vice versa.


I then came across the book with the very name “The Myth of Left
and Right” and it is a terrific read. So I was very excited that
one of the authors, Hyrum Lewis agreed to a conversation.


Hyrum Lewis is a professor of history at BYU-Idaho and was
previously a visiting scholar at Stanford University. He received
a PhD from the University of Southern California and has written
for the Wall Street Journal, Quillette, RealClearPolitics, The
Washington Examiner, and other national publications. His most
recent book, The Myth of Left and Right (co-authored with Verlan
Lewis) was published by Oxford University Press in 2023.


Moreover, this episode fits very nicely with the previous episode
with Prof. Möllers on liberalism, so if you are a German speaker,
please check this one out as well.


Political realities do not map to a single variable or
descriptor—there is no such thing as a political monism. Are
“left” and “right” just post-hoc narratives where we try to
construct ideologies that are not actually there?


We observe a regular flip-flopping in history; what are prominent
examples?


“There is no left and right; there are just two tribes, and what
these tribes believe and stand for will change quite radically
over time since there is no philosophical core uniting the
tribe.”


I, personally, have a profound problem with the term
“progressive”, but more generally, what do these terms even mean:
progressivism, conservatism, reactionary, liberal? 


“It is a loaded and self-serving term […] what is considered
progressive changes from day to day.”


“If you don't agree with every policy we believe in […] then you
are obviously on the wrong side of history. You are standing
against progress.”


So, are left and right not a philosophy but rather a tribe? 


Is the definition of conservatism maybe easier? There is a nice
brief definition: "Conservatism is democracy of the deceased,”
Roger Scruton makes the astute observation that there are so many
more ways to screw up and so little ways to do right. But does
this help in practice? 


“Every person on that planet wants to conserve things that are
good and change things that are bad. We are all progressive, and
we are all conservative. We just don't agree on what is good and
what is bad.”


What are examples where positions are unclear or change over
time.


“In 1903, President Theodore Roosevelt visited Yosemite and was
guided by naturalist John Muir. The two men spent three memorable
nights camping, first under the outstretched arms of the Grizzly
Giant in the Mariposa Grove of Giant Sequoias, then in a
snowstorm atop five feet of snow near Sentinel Dome, and finally
in a meadow near the base of Bridalveil Fall. Their conversations
and shared joy with the beauty and magnificence of Yosemite led
Roosevelt to expand federal protection of Yosemite, and it
inspired him to sign into existence five national parks, 18
national monuments, 55 national bird sanctuaries and wildlife
refuges, and 150 national forests.”, Roosevelt, Muir, and the
Grace of Place (NPR)


Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican. And here again, a “hiccup”:
even though Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican, he called himself a
progressive.


In reality, though, if you see someone on the street in a mask,
you can predict with high certainty the other political
assumptions of this person. How come? Is there now an underlying
disposition, or is there not? Or is it much more a phenomenon of
tribal or social conformity?


Is the left-right model, at least, useful? What can we learn from
past US presidents such as Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, George W.
Bush in that regard?


Is the political discourse at least more reasonable at
universities and among “elites”? Or maybe even more troubled and
more conforming to their very tribe?


If “normal” people are in general “moderate” on important topics
(like abortion), why do major political parties play for the few
on the extreme ends of the opinion spectrum?


More generally, some educated people describe themselves as
“moderate” or “centrist.” Does this even mean anything, and would
it be desirable?


What about “realism” vs. “utopianism”?


“Both status quo conservatives and progressive technocrats share
a common element: the hostility to open-ended change, guided not
by planners but by millions of experiments and trial and error.
For both, the goal is stasis, it’s just that one group finds it
in the past, the other one in the future.”, Virginia
Postrel 


A lot of these errors are made under the more elementary mistake
that we can know, predict, or foresee the future, especially when
we take actions. What can we learn from Phil Tetlock and Dan
Gardners forecasting studies?


“To be a true progressive, you cannot be a progressive”


“Our media does not reward granular, careful, and probabilistic
analysis.”


So, is it not more significant to distinguish between
authoritarian and non-authoritarian politicians or political
methods?


But can we be optimistic about the future when non-tribal
podcasters like Joe Rogan or Coleman Hughes have audiences that
are larger than most legacy media outlets combined?


Is democracy over time the best way to deal with complex
situations and challenges? Is there a value in slowness, and are
we not just too impatient?


References


Other Episodes


Episode 88: Liberalismus und Freiheitsgrade, ein Gespräch mit
Prof. Christoph Möllers

Episode 84: (Epistemische) Krisen? Ein Gespräch mit Jan David
Zimmermann

Episode 80: Wissen, Expertise und Prognose, eine Reflexion

Episode 57: Konservativ UND Progressiv



Hyrum Lewis


Hyrum Lewis at BYU-Idaho

Hyrum Lewis, Verlan Lewis, The Myth of Left and Right, Oxford
University Press (2022)

Hyrum Lewis, It's Time to Retire the Political Spectrum,
Quillette (2017)

Hyrum Lews Blog



Other References


Roger Scruton, How to be a conservative, Bloomsbury Continuum
(2019)

Johan Norberg, Open: The Story of Human Progress, Atlantic
Books (2021)

Karl Popper, The Poverty of Historicism, Routledge Classic

Phil Tetlock, Dan Gardner, Superforecasting, Cornerstone
Digital (2015)

Tim Urban, What's Our Problem?: A Self-Help Book for
Societies (2023)

Nicholas Carr, The Shallows, Atlantic Books (2020)

Roosevelt, Muir, and the Grace of Place

Joe Rogan Podcast

Coleman Hughes Podcast