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The In-Between Tech and Trust Podcast Podcast
AI as a Mirror: How Your Organization's Trust Culture Impacts AI Implementation (EP22)

AI as a Mirror: How Your Organization's Trust Culture Impacts AI Implementation (EP22)

The In-Between Tech and Trust Podcast vor 6 Monaten

0:00

36:07

️ Simon Berkler, Co-Founder of The Dive

About this episode

This episode of The In-Between Tech & Trust Podcast asks a
question every leader is quietly facing: what does AI actually do
to the trust inside your organization — and what does your trust
culture do to AI? Simon Berkler, organizational development
expert and co-founder of The Dive, argues that technology doesn't
change organizations. It reveals them. The conversation is for
leaders, HR professionals, and anyone navigating organizational
transformation in the age of AI.

Episode overview

Eva Simone Lihotzky speaks with Simon Berkler about why trust is
not a soft skill but the structural condition that makes
organizations work — and why that matters more than ever in the
context of AI adoption. Drawing on systems theory, regenerative
organizational design, and 20+ years of hands-on OD practice,
Simon reframes the tech-and-trust debate: the question is not
which AI tools to adopt, but what kind of organization you
already are. Because AI, he argues, will act as a mirror —
amplifying what's already alive, for better or worse.

They explore how to lead through in-between moments when old
logic is crumbling and new logic hasn't formed yet, why
collective intuition may be the most underused organizational
resource, and what it would mean to design governance structures
built for uncertainty rather than against it.

Key themes discussed

Why trust reduces social complexity — and what that means
practically for organizational transformation

AI as a mirror of organizational culture: how existing trust
levels determine whether AI becomes augmentation or surveillance

The difference between trust and probability — and why AI
runs on the latter, not the former

Leading through in-between spaces: how to change the rules
while still playing the game

Collective intuition as a strategic resource for navigating
complexity, drawing on the work of organizational psychologist
Peter Kruse

The Stellar Approach: a regenerative OD framework for moving
organizations from conventional to net-positive ways of working

Why rhythm is the most overlooked asset in transformation

Shifting organizational governance from optimizing for
certainty to optimizing for uncertainty

What "safe enough to try" looks like as a leadership stance
in AI adoption

References & further reading

The Dive — Simon's organizational development
consultancy: thedive.com

Simon Berkler's personal site &
writing: simon-berkler.de

The Stellar Approach by Simon Berkler & Ella Lagé
(2024): Amazon

Niklas Luhmann, Trust and Power — systems theory
foundation for the episode's framing of trust: Amazon

Nora Bateson & the concept of Warm Data — the
distinction between warm and cold data Simon
references: warmdata.life

Peter Kruse on collective intuition and complexity — the
four ways of dealing with complexity Simon draws
on: artsnext.ch summary