#605: Hamilton Morris and Dr. Mark Plotkin — Exploring the History of Psychoactive Substances, Synthetic vs. Natural Options, Microdosing, 5-MeO-DMT, The “Drunken Monkey” Hypothesis, Timothy Leary’s Legacy, and More

Hamilton Morris and Dr. Mark Plotkin — Exploring the
History of Psychoactive Substances, Synthetic vs. Natural
Options, Microdosing, 5-MeO-DMT, The “Drunken Monkey” Hypothesis,
Timothy Leary’s Legacy, and More | Brought to you
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Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job
to deconstruct world-class performers, to tease out their
routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own
life. 


This time around, we have a very special edition featuring two of
your favorite guests: Dr. Mark
Plotkin and Hamilton
Morris. 


Mark takes over my duties as host and interviews Hamilton for an
episode of the Plants of the Gods podcast. You, my dear
listeners, are hearing the audio before anyone else, so this is
a Tim Ferriss Show exclusive. I’ve previously featured
some of my favorite episodes from that show
at tim.blog/plantsofthegods. These episodes cover a lot of
fascinating ground.


Who is Mark? Mark (@DocMarkPlotkin) is an ethnobotanist who
serves as president of the Amazon Conservation Team, which
has partnered with ~80 tribes to map and improve management and
protection of ~100 million acres of ancestral rainforests. He is
best known to the general public as the author of the
book Tales of a Shaman’s Apprentice, one of the most popular
books ever written about the rainforest. His most recent book
is The Amazon: What Everyone Needs to Know. You can find my
interview with Mark at tim.blog/markplotkin. 


And the guest today is Hamilton Morris. Hamilton
(@HamiltonMorris) is a chemist, filmmaker, and science
journalist. A graduate of The New School, he conducts chemistry
research at Saint Joseph’s University. Hamilton is the writer and
director of the documentary series Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia,
in which he explores the chemistry and traditions surrounding
psychoactive drugs. You can find my most recent interview with
him at tim.blog/hamilton.  


This is a tightly packed 60-minute interview. Mark and Hamilton
cover the history of different psychoactive substances, Timothy
Leary’s legacy, the “drunken monkey” hypothesis, conservation,
microdosing, the differences between 5-MeO-DMT and DMT, a disease
that afflicts people who smoke enormous quantities of cannabis,
causing them to vomit continuously and only find relief from
their nausea by taking a hot shower (yes, really), the impact of
the placebo effect, a synthetic vs. a natural product, the role
of ritual, and much, much more. 


Please enjoy!


*


This episode is brought to you
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“If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My
answer is usually AG1 by Athletic Greens, my
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best with nutrient-dense meals, of course,
but AG further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals,
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the immune system. 


Right now, Athletic
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Friday, my very own email
newsletter that every Friday features five bullet points
highlighting cool things I’ve found that week, including apps,
books, documentaries, gadgets, albums, articles, TV shows, new
hacks or tricks, and—of course—all sorts of weird stuff I’ve dug
up from around the world.


It’s free, it’s always going to be free, and you can
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*


[06:22] The Sonoran desert toad's celebrity star is rising


[08:18] The role of the chemist in preserving plants, animals,
and fungi from which compounds are traditionally derived


[11:18] Who is Howard Lotsof?


[14:02] Microdosing


[16:39] Ken Nelson and the celebrated Bufo Alvarius: The
Psychedelic Toad of the Sonoran Desert pamphlet


[20:11] God molecule vs. just plain old DMT


[22:25] There are potential downsides to these compounds (even
cannabis)


[27:58] Undiscovered compounds


[30:15] Lessons learned and questions pondered from Alexander
Shulgin's thumb surgery


[34:05] Synthetic vs. natural


[37:21] The role of ritual


[39:49] Combining traditions


[42:27] Mark's account of Huautla in the early 2000s.


[42:58] Downsides of psychedelic tourism


[47:46] Effectiveness of fungi vs. frogs


[49:52] Where do we go in search of new substances?


[53:11] How far back do shamanic traditions go?


[54:40] Poisons as medicines and vice versa


[56:34] Salvia, and stoned vs. drunk apes


[1:04:20] Nicolas Langlitz and the primatology of primatologists


[1:06:03] Timothy Leary's legacy


*


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on The Tim Ferriss Show,
please
visit tim.blog/podcast.


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Past guests on The Tim Ferriss
Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh
Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin
Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew
McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth
Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah
Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine
Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary
Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael
Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold
Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria
Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de
Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly
Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard
Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael
Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan
Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit
Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim
Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval
Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth
Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard
Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid
Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick
Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, and many
more.


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