S03E30 - Matt Huber & Kohei Saito on Growth, Progress and Left Imaginaries

Kohei Saito and Matt Huber discuss degrowth communism, socialist
ecomodernism and their respective views on growth, natural
limits, technology and progress.


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If you are interested in democratic economic planning, these
resources might be of help:


Democratic planning – an information website


https://www.democratic-planning.com/


Sorg, C. & Groos, J. (eds.)(2025). Rethinking Economic
Planning. Competition & Change Special Issue Volume 29 Issue
1.


https://journals.sagepub.com/toc/ccha/29/1


Groos, J. & Sorg, C. (2025). Creative Construction -
Democratic Planning in the 21st Century and Beyond. Bristol
University Press. [for a review copy, please contact:
amber.lanfranchi[at]bristol.ac.uk]


https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/creative-construction


International Network for Democratic Economic Planning


https://www.indep.network/


Democratic Planning Research Platform:


https://www.planningresearch.net/


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Shownotes


Kohei Saito at University of Tokyo:


https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/people/k0001_04217.html


Saito is chair of the “Beyond Capitalism: War Economy and
Democratic Planning” Program at The New Institute:


https://thenew.institute/en/programs/beyond-capitalism-war-economy-and-democratic-planning


Matt Huber at Syracuse University:


https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/directory/matthew-t-huber


Saito, K. (2024). Slow Down: How Degrowth Communism can save the
Earth. W&N.


https://www.weidenfeldandnicolson.co.uk/titles/kohei-saito/slow-down/9781399612999/


Saito, K. (2023). Marx in the Anthropocene: Towards the Idea of
Degrowth Communism. Cambridge University Press.


https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/marx-in-the-anthropocene/D58765916F0CB624FCCBB61F50879376


Saito, K. (2017). Karl Marx’s Ecosocialism: Capital, Nature, and
the Unfinished Critique of Political Economy. Monthly Review
Press.


https://monthlyreview.org/product/karl_marxs_ecosocialism/


Huber, M. T. (2022). Climate Change as Class War: Building
Socialism on a Warming Planet. Verso Books.


https://www.versobooks.com/products/775-climate-change-as-class-war?srsltid=AfmBOop0wE8Ljdd-lZjDF-9-RZ_QvjRz2f3EobOv3AYEVpcqMDssRUd9


Huber, M. T. (2013). Lifeblood: Oil, Freedom, and the Forces of
Capital. University of Minnesota Press.


https://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816677856/lifeblood/


Matt Huber’s and Leigh Philipps’s review of Saito’s recent work:


https://jacobin.com/2024/03/kohei-saito-degrowth-communism-environment-marxism


on Huber’s critique of degrowth:


https://jacobin.com/2023/07/degrowth-climate-change-economic-planning-production-austerity


more articles on Jacobin by Huber:


https://jacobin.com/author/matt-huber


Matt Huber’s medium blog:


https://medium.com/@Matthuber78


On Ecomodernism:


https://thebreakthrough.org/ecomodernism


Matt Huber’s stance on the term “Ecomodernism”:


https://medium.com/@Matthuber78/clarifications-on-ecomodernism-3b159cafb836


on Vaclav Smil:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaclav_Smil


chapter on machinery and modern industry in Marx’s Capital Vol.1:


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm


on Eco-Marxism/Ecosocialism:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism


Reading guide on Ecology & Marxism by Andreas Malm:


https://www.historicalmaterialism.org/ecology-marxism-andreas-malm/


on GDP:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product


Schmelzer, M. (2016). The Hegemony of Growth: The OECD and the
Making of the Economic Growth Paradigm. Cambridge University
Press.


https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/hegemony-of-growth/A80C4DF19D804C723D55A5EFE7A447FD


on the „Green New Deal”:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal


Pollin, R. (2018) De-Growth vs. a Green New Deal. New Left Review
Issue 112.


https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii112/articles/robert-pollin-de-growth-vs-a-green-new-deal


Hickel, J. (2020). What does degrowth mean? A few points of
clarification. Globalizations, 18(7), 1105–1111.


https://blogs.law.columbia.edu/utopia1313/files/2022/11/What-does-degrowth-mean-A-few-points-of-clarification.pdf


on Malthusianism:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism


Harvey, D. (1974). Population, Resources, and the Ideology of
Science. Economic Geography, 50(3), 256–277.


https://www.uky.edu/~tmute2/GEI-Web/password-protect/GEI-readings/harvey%20population.pdf


the „Limits to Growth” report from 1972:


https://www.clubofrome.org/publication/the-limits-to-growth/


Hickel, J. (2019) Degrowth: A Theory of Radical Abundance.
Real-World Economics Review Issue 87.


https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59bc0e610abd04bd1e067ccc/t/5cb6db356e9a7f14e5322a62/1555487546989/Hickel+-+Degrowth%2C+A+Theory+of+Radical+Abundance.pdf


on Planetary Boundaries:


https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/planetary-boundaries.html


Earl C. Ellies:


https://ges.umbc.edu/ellis/


on “Decoupling”:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-economic_decoupling


Christophers, B. (2024). The Price is Wrong: Why Capitalism Won’t
Save the Planet. Verso Books.


https://www.versobooks.com/products/3069-the-price-is-wrong?srsltid=AfmBOorFVDdqKegvmh1GA8ku3xla4rBjygkm0iwPL5VXF-BH-O1WOkMo


on the Haber-Bosch Process:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process


Smil, V. (2004). Enriching the Earth: Fritz Haber, Carl Bosch,
and the Transformation of World Food Production. MIT Press.


https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262693134/enriching-the-earth/


Smil, V. (2016). Power Density: A Key to Understanding Energy
Sources and Uses. MIT Press.


https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/4023/Power-DensityA-Key-to-Understanding-Energy-Sources


on Mining and the Green Energy Transition:


https://soundcloud.com/novaramedia/novara-fm-clean-energy-is-already-terraforming-the-earth-w-thea-riofrancos


Marx’s letter to Vera Zasulich:


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1881/zasulich/index.htm


Marx’s “Preface” to “A Contribution to the Critique of Political
Economy”:


https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm


Future Histories Episodes on Related Topics


S03E23 | Andreas Malm on Overshooting into Climate Breakdown


https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s03/e23-andreas-malm-on-overshooting-into-climate-breakdown/


S03E03 | Planning for Entropy on Sociometabolic Planning


https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s03/e03-planning-for-entropy-on-sociometabolic-planning/


S03E02 | George Monbiot on Public Luxury


https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s03/e02-george-monbiot-on-public-luxury/


S02E55 | Kohei Saito on Degrowth Communism


https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s02/e55-kohei-saito-on-degrowth-communism/


S02E47 | Matt Huber on Building Socialism, Climate Change &
Class War


https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s02/e47-matt-huber-on-building-socialism-climate-change-class-war/


S02E18 | Drew Pendergrass and Troy Vettese on Half Earth
Socialism


https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s02/e18-drew-pendergrass-and-troy-vettese-on-half-earth-socialism/


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Episode Keywords


 #MattHuber, #KoheiSaito, #Podcast, #JanGroos, #Interview,
#FutureHistories, #futurehistoriesinternational,
#FutureHistoriesInternational, #Degrowth, #Socialism,
#Capitalism, #GreenNewDeal, #ClimateJustice, #WorkingClass,
#PoliticalEconomy, #ClimateCrisis, #FossilCapitalism,
#EcoSocialism, #Marx, #DemocraticEconomicPlanning, #Class,
#ClassStruggle, #DemocraticPlanning, #DegrowthCommunism,
#PostCapitalism, #ClimatePolitics, #RadicalEcology,
#JustTransition, #Prometheanism, #Communism, #Progress